Jian (See)

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: No thanks, The difference between me and the groups that stand here is that I'm not self deluding myself into believing and presenting myself as something I'm not. I am an individual that chooses to function here as a component of this place, just like everybody else. The difference is that I admit that and I embrace that. I have no interest in changing that or this place. Its wasted effort, but occasionally I get to point out some of the hypocrisy when things like this arise.

IMO, It's equally wasted effort to point out hypocrisy and complaints if your not willing to stand up and put effort into changing it, makes you no better then the accusations and assumptions you pass around in the process.

At no point did I say you should present yourself as something your not, rather the opposite. It bother's me on a personal level when I see a bunch of people standing around pointing at a problem, but no one of those same people take a step forward to do anything about it. Action requires action, leaders act by example, pointing at something does nothing, for if you have to point at it, it's because no one else has had the time or ability to do anything about it, let alone be aware of it, thus pointing at it is pointless. But that's my personal view on it.

"Do or Do Not, there is no Talk"

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: No thanks, The difference between me and the groups that stand here is that I'm not self deluding myself into believing and presenting myself as something I'm not. I am an individual that chooses to function here as a component of this place, just like everybody else. The difference is that I admit that and I embrace that. I have no interest in changing that or this place. Its wasted effort, but occasionally I get to point out some of the hypocrisy when things like this arise.

IMO, It's equally wasted effort to point out hypocrisy and complaints if your not willing to stand up and put effort into changing it, makes you no better then the accusations and assumptions you pass around in the process.

In case you hadn't noticed I did provide possible solutions to this particular issue I'm pointing out with Streen, I'm just not interested in enacting those solutions. But please take my suggestions and run with them. More power to you.

Manu wrote:

Zenchi wrote: Perhaps, if those involved are inexperienced at providing guidance, and the TOTJO is filled with its share of "teachers" that's for certain. The problem is the majority of people here either don't give a fuck about truly assisting others, or are inadequate in their attempts because they are heavily inexperienced, and tend to enable and coddle, which also is a a common trait amongst the membership here...

Intervention isn't supposed to be a pleasant experience....

A fair point. I don't argue the first one, due to inexperience with Clergy. On the second point, yes, intervention is not pleasant, but offline it's hard to walk out. Online it is too easy. How do you suggest we go about it?

The sad truth if it is there is no foreseeable solution, this Temple is not designed to empower, enlighten or teach, it's designed to crap out "Jedi" as quickly and as efficiently as possible, kinda like a Walmart superstore, because the numbers are all that really matters here anyways...

What "we" can do as Individuals is contact him and whoever else is having sincere issues, privately. Stop relying on the Clergy, or any other authority figure period. Intervention can work, but it won't be widely successful here anytime soon...

Streen appears if he could benefit from a period of de programming, and staying off the net entirely for a while. He needs to find what's important to him, and focus entirely on that...

Zenchi wrote: The sad truth if it is there is no foreseeable solution, this Temple is not designed to empower, enlighten or teach, it's designed to crap out "Jedi" as quickly and as efficiently as possible, kinda like a Walmart superstore, because the numbers are all that really matters here anyways...

I very much like this reply. Now, what can we as members do to help empower, enlighten and teach, since the burden cannot be placed on management, be it due to overwhelming tasks or negligence?

I see ... lots of opinions. I see ...as a good Chief said after a meeting with top officials ... High wind ... Big Thunder , no rain. Opinions are fine, we all got them. If you see a need , fill it , Be the change you want to see in , YOUR life , otherwise you may in danger of what ol Teddy said “Complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining.”
— Theodore Roosevelt
I do my part as well as the clergy here so in those , in our defense , join! Please join! Please bring your light thru so it is the rain we need , don't just point out what you think is the need , fill it , like only you can , when I PERSONALLY did this , (mind blown sound ) my view and my words AND my efforts changed. Looking for change ? You may be the only one who sees it AND change it ! I hope this is encouraging enough to help not hinder !

Manu wrote:

Zenchi wrote: The sad truth if it is there is no foreseeable solution, this Temple is not designed to empower, enlighten or teach, it's designed to crap out "Jedi" as quickly and as efficiently as possible, kinda like a Walmart superstore, because the numbers are all that really matters here anyways...

I very much like this reply. Now, what can we as members do to help empower, enlighten and teach, since the burden cannot be placed on management, be it due to overwhelming tasks or negligence?

Perhaps we could start by not denigrating those people here who volunteer their time and energy to empower, enlighten, and teach.

Atticus wrote:

Manu wrote:

Zenchi wrote: The sad truth if it is there is no foreseeable solution, this Temple is not designed to empower, enlighten or teach, it's designed to crap out "Jedi" as quickly and as efficiently as possible, kinda like a Walmart superstore, because the numbers are all that really matters here anyways...

I very much like this reply. Now, what can we as members do to help empower, enlighten and teach, since the burden cannot be placed on management, be it due to overwhelming tasks or negligence?

Perhaps we could start by not denigrating those people here who volunteer their time and energy to empower, enlighten, and teach.

Can't really begin to approach a problem in attempts at correcting it until you acknowledge it in the first place. And just because people volunteer their time doesn't necessarily equate to them being qualified to do so, although that's another topic altogether...

We get alot of broken individuals coming here looking for answers. Quite a few of the members pointing out solutions aren't fit to provide them, that's NOT an attack on anyone, it's an honest observation. This site/church has enables people to call themselves "Jedi" without doing a lick of work to back it up, simply in attempts at keeping the numbers...

The problem should be clear, the Temple has been for a very long time now, primarily concerned with "quantity over quality" and anyone who points it out is villainized to a certain degree. The solution, is going to be offensive to many who haven't put in the work, but wish to continue the illusion that they had. We're more concerned with rank badges than what we teach. The need for three badges recently is clear proof of this...

We have quite a few high ranking members who haven't done a tenth of the work that Initiates are doing now, and their allowed to continue holding rank as if that's not the case. These problems have been brought up before, again and again and again. People don't want to hear it, they don't like having their illusions pointed out. The problem starts at the top, (every bit of it) and until it is addressed real substantial change will never come about...

Well enough. Qualified like that, I don't agree with everything or even most of what you say, but you raise a couple of points that are worth discussing. But "qualified like that" has not been the general tenor of the thread, or even of your own contributions. It has been "the majority of people here" and "the clergy" and "the teachers", and we're all either uncaring or incompetent, and none of us contribute anything meaningful.

I used your quote to seize a conversational opening, and by doing that I may have misled you into thinking that I was addressing just you, Zen. I apologize for being unclear.

Zenchi wrote: The solution, is going to be offensive to many who haven't put in the work, but wish to continue the illusion that they had. We're more concerned with rank badges than what we teach. The need for three badges recently is clear proof of this...

What is your vision for the Temple?

Atticus wrote: Perhaps we could start by not denigrating those people here who volunteer their time and energy to empower, enlighten, and teach.

When you speak of those people here who give their time and energy to empower, enlighten and teach, exactly who are you referring to?