Jian (See)

why come back? Sure, you say more people will hear you now but what's the point?

This is akin to someone who had McDonald's and didn't like it so they go back to that McDonald's and yell at people for enjoying their fries.

Let people enjoy their fries, all your racket won't change a thing.

Zenchi wrote: Perhaps I should have placed emphasis on the word, "successfully"....

Perhaps you should do your research. Jedi Creed, Jedi Organization, and JEDI were the most successful Jedi sites in history. Far more so than TOTJO. But all good things must come to an end.

Sure, you say more people will hear you now but what's the point?

The point—as has always been the point—is sharing wisdom. That's been our mission since the days of the Jedi Alliance in the 90's. No ranks, no system, no artificiality. Just faith in the Force to guide us, to find people who have ears to hear, but never forcing ideas on anyone.

What so many don't understand is that Knighthood is not something one attains by completing a written or oral test, but by living, by learning and knowing. There is no more wisdom found here than there is found in your own heart. You need only unlock it.

Every Apprenticeship is different. Every teacher/student relationship is different. I don't think it's my place to criticize anyone's method of instruction, especially when I am not subject to it.

The ironic part of all of this, Streen, is that if you had just postead the excerpt by itself instead of telling us how to interpret it there might have been interesting discussion on the excerpt itself. If you had trusted us to see it for what it was and learn from it instead of from you we'd be discussing it instead of you. Which I would much rather be doing. No offense.

Streen, since when are ideas forced on anyone? Someone can disagree with everything in The IP and pass it perfectly as long as they explain why they disagree or what's wrong with an idea presented.

But the big deal here is manners. Plain common courtesy. Why don't you go walk into other churches you don't agree with and start preaching about how wrong they are? Do you do that?

I know this is a forum and not a live service in chat. But there's plenty of room on the Internet out there other than our space here.

Streen wrote:

Zenchi wrote: Perhaps I should have placed emphasis on the word, "successfully"....

Perhaps you should do your research. Jedi Creed, Jedi Organization, and JEDI were the most successful Jedi sites in history. Far more so than TOTJO. But all good things must come to an end.

Sure, you say more people will hear you now but what's the point?

The point—as has always been the point—is sharing wisdom. That's been our mission since the days of the Jedi Alliance in the 90's. No ranks, no system, no artificiality. Just faith in the Force to guide us, to find people who have ears to hear, but never forcing ideas on anyone.

What so many don't understand is that Knighthood is not something one attains by completing a written or oral test, but by living, by learning and knowing. There is no more wisdom found here than there is found in your own heart. You need only unlock it.

And like all good things, they came to an end, like you said. Maybe the same will happen with TotJO. Perhaps not. Time will tell. But so far its holding true.

As for the second part... isn't that what we are doing here? You don't NEED to attain jack all to be taken seriously here, to spread wisdom. You don't NEED to do anything curriculum based to be a Jedi. No one is saying that.

But to be a Knight, a person that is a recognised mentor here, you need training. Perhaps you already have all the skills needed to be a mentor. Perhaps not. How do we ensure everyone is up to that level? We teach them with a curriculum. Even then, passing the curriculum doesn't guarantee a position as a Knight, as we've seen. You have to be a model member of this community, have shown personal growth, ect.

Time and time again you say you're trying to make a change, but then it devolves back into you bashing the system set forth. I've seen other communities and how they manage things. I liked this method most. You don't like how this temple runs things, you can go to another. As you've said, there are others. Or go start your own under your philosophy. That's the beauty of Jediism, you can do what you want with it so long as you follow the Force.

But to advance with that lil jpeg under your avatar, you gotta put forward an effort in this community. No silver plates for these Jedi.

'Tis not enough, your counsel still be true;
Blunt truths more mischief than nice falsehoods do;
Men must be taught as if you taught them not;
And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
Without good breeding, truth is disapprov'd;
That only makes superior sense belov'd.

From An Essay on Criticism: Part 3

~ Alexander Pope

Call me Tron call me clergy call me sentimental call me ignorant or a fool but as I study and see and walk and see, I still see Jedi vs Jedi. Some day I hope that we will not seek a fight or a ill word to one another , we've learn to fly the sky like birds and swim the sea like fish , he have technology at our fingertips , infanate knowladge and we ... have yet to learn to walk this earth like brother and sister. Smh , I fight for the users ... the people, the hearts , I hope we can see ... what is present , man vs man or on correct terms heart vs heart. I hope we can all find what was we sought , I see a lot more now , might not have been what I was looking for but there it is. The ability for every Jedi to be ... is a gift not to often given. Thank you so much for THIS light ... wether it was dark or light is up to me in my path. May I build something and not tare down! May the force I share be with you all and may the force we share find y'all where you seek it .

Okay, let's all take a breather here folks.

Streen. Share your wisdom. If you cant do it without invalidating the views and opinions of others then perhaps reexamine your wisdom.
We don't force opinions here. We discuss, debate, and encourage. If you want to come in here and redesign our teachings and structures you are going about it the wrong way. I implore you to see reason.
As to all else. Don't compromise your integrity to tear down this individual. Perhaps he has some wisdom that can be enlightening. If we can discuss this civilly, we may all grow from it.

Please be an instrument of peace.

Thank you, JL. I realize that much of what I've said must sound extremely egotistical, but my intentions are good.

I really have no problem with what is being taught here, I just question the how. I'm going to be brutally honest with you right now... I desperately want to teach. It is, I feel, my purpose. So you must understand how frustrating it is to have mentored so many people and then to suddenly be blocked from doing it. Yes, I know, there are other sites. But none of them are anywhere nearly as active as TOTJO, and most of them have blocked me there too.

A long time ago (late 90's) I was having a conversation with Relan Volkum. We were working on Jedi Creed, and we asked each other what we wanted to do with our lives. And we agreed that we were already doing it. There we were, in our late teens, and we had already found our purpose.

I know this thread jumped the track, but in all honesty, my reason for posting it had more to do with a subconscious desire to mentor. I feel empty without an apprentice, because I'm not fulfilling my destiny. And it's been a long time since I had an official student.

I am very sorry for the way this all turned out. I'll shut up now.