Jian (See)

Tellahane wrote:

Senan wrote: Nobody is kicking a can. Changes are happening. It is slow and many are small, but that is how it has to be right now. Changing too much too fast is as dangerous as no change at all. I'm thrilled to see Tellahane with access to the site admin now, but I've also head an equal amount of complaints about changes that he has made. I expect that from a larger community and it is no reason not to move forward, but we also can't be selfish. This is a Temple for all of us, including the people we don't like or agree with.

We also need to address just what standards we are holding people accountable to. Not everyone agrees on this, and some people demand that it is their standard that must be met or they leave. That is their choice, but no single one of us gets to decide how to hold others accountable. It has to be done by the group, and right now, the group has no consensus on what that means. Right now, all we can do is be accountable to ourselves and to those we trust and work closest with. No matter how hard we try to hold others to our standards, the fact is, they don't have to change. The accountability comes from the bottom, not the top. When we work together and hold each other to our words, we can create a community that will develop ever increasing standards on its own. The Initiate Program is just one example. It continues to develop over time and has certainly surpassed what many of us experienced when we first took it. That means the next Initiates will be better informed than we were, and likely be better Knights because of it.

Every change made was a change that had been requested by the community, obviously not everyone liked it. There is however two new forum categories that anyone member and up can post in suggesting and discussing changes or problems with the site etc, feel free to post your concerns in there so it is better tracked.

As far as some of the label changes, while I do have access to site admin things, and can pull backups to test stuff on a test server, I do not have access to edit the actual files on the server, or edit the live database for perfectly valid reasons. Because of that some changes such as the clergy titles that have changed have to be changed via the code in some places, and that still waits on ren who is under a huge personal life work load, between his other responsibilities and things going on, so those changes have to wait until he is available to give the time for them. There are plan's in place for addressing this issue in the future but again that partially waits on ren to get back to having some free time again so its a work in progress. Nothing is being "Ignored" or "intentionally left to the wayside". I wish some people would put the same amount of effort into investigating an issue as they would complain about it so they have full actual knowledge of what's actually going on.

I in no way meant this as criticism of your work, Tellahane. I am excited about what you have been able to accomplish already and I know you are doing everything you can in ren's absence. I apologize if it came off like I was being critical of you or the site. I merely meant to point out, as you know, that we can never make everyone happy. All we can do is what we believe is the best action at the time and hopefully serve the Temple well. I eagerly await your next improvements to the site and I'll try to be clearer in the future and not throw you in front of the bus like that again. ~Respect

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Wow, well at least this place is consistent. See what you have done here, once again selfishly turned the conversation inwards to yourselves and abandoned the issue of an immediate need here right now at this "temple". This is exactly what I mean by all talk and no action. Your all so concerned about yourselves and your structure and your ranks that you have lost focus yet again.

You may not agree with my methods and that's ok, I don't really care. Your opinion of them in no way reduces their effectiveness as a viable means of interaction. The really amazing part is that vehement disagreement is as impotent as your methods of addressing the main issue in this thread - Streen! I find it the height of irony that in the face of this, I still remain Streens greatest advocate!!

Why dont at least one of you, suck it up, pull a bit of actual leadership out of your ass and actually DO something? Your all looking to each other to lead but no one is taking up the reins and directing the horses. As a result the wagon is running loose and those in need are trampled beneath its wheels. Leadership is not words, its action!

Please use respectful language, do not be abusive and swear only where appropriate.


https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#TermsandRules

Please and thank you .

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please use respectful language, do not be abusive and swear only where appropriate.
Please and thank you .

Can you define "appropriate" for me?

Senan wrote: So it is we who are selfish while you openly admit you are only here for yourself? That makes your opinion basically worthless to me in that anything you suggest or demand is just meant to benefit you. I can serve the community best by ignoring you and tending to people who actually wish to be part of the community, not stand outside of it and complain. These demands are easy to make from the sidelines, and quite frankly, I went to the mat for you, Kyrin, on more than one occasion here and got my ass handed to me. I respect your opinions and your willingness to stand on your own despite outside pressures, but I learned a harsh but necessary lesson from that experience. It was that I'm not here to fix your problems, or Streen's, or anyone else's. This is a community, but we all are personally responsible for our successes and failures, and if you are not in a position to lead or exact any changes you want around here, that is on you. You are not in a position to make demands of people here when you won't accept any responsibility yourself. So, in your words, why don't you suck it up and do for Streen what the rest of us fail to. Otherwise, you are just as much hot air as the rest of us.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't have to take criticism as truth and bow to people complaining either. I am doing what I can to serve others in the Temple at the expense of my personal time, and I still get to choose what actions I deem appropriate use of that time. Right now, Streen can't be one of those priorities.

Yes, this is what I want to see! Get mad! Tell it like it is. Believe me I understand your frustration. I wrestled on that mat more times than you did over my situation here. And nothing ever changed, did it. The oligarchy is to firmly entrenched because they control the means of production. I know you understand that because you have helped others start a new site. You got your ass handed to you here, sure, so did I, several times. I trusted when it was not warranted and I believed when there was no evidence for it. Not any more my friend. Ive been burned to many times. But I remain, yes for me, but for you as well, because you still care and you still try and I want you to succeed. I'm your friend and I support you in your efforts. And I think if you cant change things from within then start to change things without the greater community. I find it sad that you still fail to see the opportunity here with this situation, that you say you cant focus on Streen now. Why not? If not this fold there are other options right?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please use respectful language, do not be abusive and swear only where appropriate.
Please and thank you .

Can you define "appropriate" for me?

Non abusive. Non insulting.

A good example would be "good shit". That's appropriate. You're not dumb Kyrin. Don't play it.

JLSpinner wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Please use respectful language, do not be abusive and swear only where appropriate.
Please and thank you .

Can you define "appropriate" for me?

Non abusive. Non insulting.

A good example would be "good shit". That's appropriate. You're not dumb Kyrin. Don't play it.

My comment was not insulting or abusive. If you feel it was then we have a difference of philosophy and in that case it needs to be better defined. Dont leave it vague and up to subjective interpretation.

It's really not vague. I personally don't care. But I have received complaints. Mind you this is the open discussions thread in the general forum. Any minor or guest can see this even without having a login. This site is also a Church. So please be more mindful and more respectful.

@jlspinner, as you wish.

Atticus wrote:

Tellahane wrote: I think you care a great deal more than you realize because your making such a deal out of it. As far as not a this or that or other, you don't have to be any of those things to do it....you know that right?

That's a misread, man. Kyrin doesn't actually want anything done. Kyrin wants to point and scold. I think it would actually spoil a lot of the fun if we actually did what was being suggested.

@atticus, you don't know me nor have you ever bothered to understand what I'm about. Your operating out of your own biased preconceived perceptions and that is why you're continuing to mischaracterize me.

@Tellahane, yea I care, but not about this place or what it stands for. I care about you guys and what you want to stand for. I'm not clergy and I was turned down for knighthood not once but twice. At one time I was willing to take those vows but no more. It's you guys that have taken those vows and stepped up in this temple to be of greater service, to people in need like streen, just as spinner describes it. I have not and quite frankly the level of mentorship that streen needs is not within my power to provide here at this temple. I'm not allowed to mentor or teach. That mantle falls to you, the knights. He needs someone willing and able to walk that path with him for a time here. I'm not that person.

curious question, how can you care for people and what they stand for when you don't care for what THEY care for? I.E., this place?

I ask this honestly and respectfully, it seems a bit contradicted so I'm a bit curious.

vladucard wrote: curious question, how can you care for people and what they stand for when you don't care for what THEY care for? I.E., this place?

I ask this honestly and respectfully, it seems a bit contradicted so I'm a bit curious.

Because people are more than any institution they may perceive they represent. This is a place of great strife and turmoil because of the Institution. This is because it is corrupt and subject to ego and politics and the struggle for power. I want my brothers and sisters to rise above that and become who they were meant to be and who they want to be, not because of the institution but in spite of it.