Jian (See)

Its not just the big things that need changing. I know those will take time. But even the small things, things debated at length and a decision was made... and yet STILL have yet to be acted upon.

Take for instance the top of the page. It still says International church of Jediism, when the decision to change it to "An International Church of Jediism" was reached, and in fact openly stated that it WOULD be changed.

Yet there it sits, a stark reminder that nothing changes, even the small things.

Nobody is kicking a can. Changes are happening. It is slow and many are small, but that is how it has to be right now. Changing too much too fast is as dangerous as no change at all. I'm thrilled to see Tellahane with access to the site admin now, but I've also head an equal amount of complaints about changes that he has made. I expect that from a larger community and it is no reason not to move forward, but we also can't be selfish. This is a Temple for all of us, including the people we don't like or agree with.

We also need to address just what standards we are holding people accountable to. Not everyone agrees on this, and some people demand that it is their standard that must be met or they leave. That is their choice, but no single one of us gets to decide how to hold others accountable. It has to be done by the group, and right now, the group has no consensus on what that means. Right now, all we can do is be accountable to ourselves and to those we trust and work closest with. No matter how hard we try to hold others to our standards, the fact is, they don't have to change. The accountability comes from the bottom, not the top. When we work together and hold each other to our words, we can create a community that will develop ever increasing standards on its own. The Initiate Program is just one example. It continues to develop over time and has certainly surpassed what many of us experienced when we first took it. That means the next Initiates will be better informed than we were, and likely be better Knights because of it.

Wow, well at least this place is consistent. See what you have done here, once again selfishly turned the conversation inwards to yourselves and abandoned the issue of an immediate need here right now at this "temple". This is exactly what I mean by all talk and no action. Your all so concerned about yourselves and your structure and your ranks that you have lost focus yet again.

You may not agree with my methods and that's ok, I don't really care. Your opinion of them in no way reduces their effectiveness as a viable means of interaction. The really amazing part is that vehement disagreement is as impotent as your methods of addressing the main issue in this thread - Streen! I find it the height of irony that in the face of this, I still remain Streens greatest advocate!!

Why dont at least one of you, suck it up, pull a bit of actual leadership out of your ass and actually DO something? Your all looking to each other to lead but no one is taking up the reins and directing the horses. As a result the wagon is running loose and those in need are trampled beneath its wheels. Leadership is not words, its action!

Senan wrote: Nobody is kicking a can. Changes are happening. It is slow and many are small, but that is how it has to be right now. Changing too much too fast is as dangerous as no change at all. I'm thrilled to see Tellahane with access to the site admin now, but I've also head an equal amount of complaints about changes that he has made. I expect that from a larger community and it is no reason not to move forward, but we also can't be selfish. This is a Temple for all of us, including the people we don't like or agree with.

We also need to address just what standards we are holding people accountable to. Not everyone agrees on this, and some people demand that it is their standard that must be met or they leave. That is their choice, but no single one of us gets to decide how to hold others accountable. It has to be done by the group, and right now, the group has no consensus on what that means. Right now, all we can do is be accountable to ourselves and to those we trust and work closest with. No matter how hard we try to hold others to our standards, the fact is, they don't have to change. The accountability comes from the bottom, not the top. When we work together and hold each other to our words, we can create a community that will develop ever increasing standards on its own. The Initiate Program is just one example. It continues to develop over time and has certainly surpassed what many of us experienced when we first took it. That means the next Initiates will be better informed than we were, and likely be better Knights because of it.

Every change made was a change that had been requested by the community, obviously not everyone liked it. There is however two new forum categories that anyone member and up can post in suggesting and discussing changes or problems with the site etc, feel free to post your concerns in there so it is better tracked.

As far as some of the label changes, while I do have access to site admin things, and can pull backups to test stuff on a test server, I do not have access to edit the actual files on the server, or edit the live database for perfectly valid reasons. Because of that some changes such as the clergy titles that have changed have to be changed via the code in some places, and that still waits on ren who is under a huge personal life work load, between his other responsibilities and things going on, so those changes have to wait until he is available to give the time for them. There are plan's in place for addressing this issue in the future but again that partially waits on ren to get back to having some free time again so its a work in progress. Nothing is being "Ignored" or "intentionally left to the wayside". I wish some people would put the same amount of effort into investigating an issue as they would complain about it so they have full actual knowledge of what's actually going on.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Wow, well at least this place is consistent. See what you have done here, once again selfishly turned the conversation inwards to yourselves and abandoned the issue of an immediate need here right now at this "temple". This is exactly what I mean by all talk and no action. Your all so concerned about yourselves and your structure and your ranks that you have lost focus yet again.

You may not agree with my methods and that's ok, I don't really care. Your opinion of them in no way reduces their effectiveness as a viable means of interaction. The really amazing part is that vehement disagreement is as impotent as your methods of addressing the main issue in this thread - Streen! I find it the height of irony that in the face of this, I still remain Streens greatest advocate!!

Why dont at least one of you, suck it up, pull a bit of actual leadership out of your ass and actually DO something? Your all looking to each other to lead but no one is taking up the reins and directing the horses. As a result the wagon is running loose and those in need are trampled beneath its wheels. Leadership is not words, its action!

So what are you waiting for?

Tellahane wrote: So what are you waiting for?

I'm not waiting for anything. Please see my previous post. Beyond that I could care less what happens to Streen. I'm not a Jedi nor a member of the clergy or Knights core. I'm here for myself, that's all. Your the Jedi that claims to be all about selfless service... well prove it for once.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Tellahane wrote: So what are you waiting for?

I'm not waiting for anything. Please see my previous post. Beyond that I could care less what happens to Streen. I'm not a Jedi nor a member of the clergy or Knights core. I'm here for myself, that's all. Your the Jedi that claims to be all about selfless service... well prove it for once.

I think you care a great deal more than you realize because your making such a deal out of it. As far as not a this or that or other, you don't have to be any of those things to do it....you know that right?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Wow, well at least this place is consistent. See what you have done here, once again selfishly turned the conversation inwards to yourselves and abandoned the issue of an immediate need here right now at this "temple". This is exactly what I mean by all talk and no action. Your all so concerned about yourselves and your structure and your ranks that you have lost focus yet again.

You may not agree with my methods and that's ok, I don't really care. Your opinion of them in no way reduces their effectiveness as a viable means of interaction. The really amazing part is that vehement disagreement is as impotent as your methods of addressing the main issue in this thread - Streen! I find it the height of irony that in the face of this, I still remain Streens greatest advocate!!

Why dont at least one of you, suck it up, pull a bit of actual leadership out of your ass and actually DO something? Your all looking to each other to lead but no one is taking up the reins and directing the horses. As a result the wagon is running loose and those in need are trampled beneath its wheels. Leadership is not words, its action!

So it is we who are selfish while you openly admit you are only here for yourself? That makes your opinion basically worthless to me in that anything you suggest or demand is just meant to benefit you. I can serve the community best by ignoring you and tending to people who actually wish to be part of the community, not stand outside of it and complain. These demands are easy to make from the sidelines, and quite frankly, I went to the mat for you, Kyrin, on more than one occasion here and got my ass handed to me. I respect your opinions and your willingness to stand on your own despite outside pressures, but I learned a harsh but necessary lesson from that experience. It was that I'm not here to fix your problems, or Streen's, or anyone else's. This is a community, but we all are personally responsible for our successes and failures, and if you are not in a position to lead or exact any changes you want around here, that is on you. You are not in a position to make demands of people here when you won't accept any responsibility yourself. So, in your words, why don't you suck it up and do for Streen what the rest of us fail to. Otherwise, you are just as much hot air as the rest of us.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't have to take criticism as truth and bow to people complaining either. I am doing what I can to serve others in the Temple at the expense of my personal time, and I still get to choose what actions I deem appropriate use of that time. Right now, Streen can't be one of those priorities.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Wow, well at least this place is consistent. See what you have done here, once again selfishly turned the conversation inwards to yourselves and abandoned the issue of an immediate need here right now at this "temple". This is exactly what I mean by all talk and no action. Your all so concerned about yourselves and your structure and your ranks that you have lost focus yet again.

You may not agree with my methods and that's ok, I don't really care. Your opinion of them in no way reduces their effectiveness as a viable means of interaction. The really amazing part is that vehement disagreement is as impotent as your methods of addressing the main issue in this thread - Streen! I find it the height of irony that in the face of this, I still remain Streens greatest advocate!!

Why dont at least one of you, suck it up, pull a bit of actual leadership out of your ass and actually DO something? Your all looking to each other to lead but no one is taking up the reins and directing the horses. As a result the wagon is running loose and those in need are trampled beneath its wheels. Leadership is not words, its action!

I understand why you feel this way. Much of where the leadership conversations are occurring are in sections of the forum that you can't see. I apologise for that. I'll try to post an update here soon. I'm at work currently.

Tellahane wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Tellahane wrote: So what are you waiting for?

I'm not waiting for anything. Please see my previous post. Beyond that I could care less what happens to Streen. I'm not a Jedi nor a member of the clergy or Knights core. I'm here for myself, that's all. Your the Jedi that claims to be all about selfless service... well prove it for once.

I think you care a great deal more than you realize because your making such a deal out of it. As far as not a this or that or other, you don't have to be any of those things to do it....you know that right?

That's a misread, man. Kyrin doesn't actually want anything done. Kyrin wants to point and scold. I think it would actually spoil a lot of the fun if we actually did what was being suggested.