The Problems with TotJO

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6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #281899 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic The Problems with TotJO
i HAVE looked it up and jesus most likely is NOT a retelling of any sun god or any other mythology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_comparative_mythology

i dont like wikipedia as a source to settle issue, but that link gives enough names and specific follow up information that you can use it to confirm for yourself IF YOU CARE TO

the "physical temple" discussion has been done to death; if you initiate a real plan for making something really happen then let us know. some of the membership here just dont want a temple and arent going to change their minds. some of us dont care anymore, but some of us really would like a temple at least to exist and would help in whatever way we could. but we're ALL tired of talking about it at this point because weve had the discussion over and over and have learned that its as useful as arguing the inflation rate of latinum : it is occasionally interesting and even fun as an exercise in imagination, but not directly useful for anything because experience tells us that its going nowhere.

some people like robes, but many of us think they are silly. it isnt about being afraid of how we look or how we will be judged, its that robes are for playing dress-up. they are a costume. they are not realistic modern wear for working adults. if you want to wear robes then go ahead.
matter of fact, do you wear robes?
are you yourself out on the town actually doing all of these jedi things that you want everyone else to do, or are you demanding others live up to a standard that you dont meet yourself?

i used to think that christians werent REALLY christian if they didnt do like jesus told that one guy- sell their property and wander the earth as penniless hobos spreading "the word" and doing "god's work"
now i know better.

if you think this point is repetitive its because you arent giving it the appropriate acknowledgement and so it has to be repeated: people here already have lives and obligations that we have to meet. we arent children jedi who have been whisked away for training on curuscant, we are jedi with families to feed and with careers and jobs. totjo'ers work at the local bank or the DMV. we are educators and students and military and law enforcement. we work in computer software and public relations and accounting and construction. we are real people, and our jediism is about dealing with the real world of every day living. its about how we carry ourselves and relate to others in that world. community service is a big part of it for many. developing a career that is itself some kind of service is the chosen path for many. simply learning how to get our lives under enough control that we can deliberately choose its course from here out is the first step for many, and a hell of a step it is. walking away from all of that to go live in a religious monastery is not in the cards for most of us, even if we wanted it to be. and fyi its easy to talk about hypothetical dedication when you dont have any real obligations in your life. a little bit of context about who you are and what youve done with yourself up to this point in your life might help your case; please enlighten us about yourself and your own accomplishments so we can have some confidence that you arent just some self assured kid with a lot of talk. because if you are then there is a great deal of irony in you lecturing someone like Kit on the topic of dedication and telling people they arent dedicated enough because they actually are dedicated to their real priorities- it doesnt make a convincing impression in regards to your level of reliability or maturity.

maybe the IP could be better, fair enough. but theres a big difference between saying "it could be better" and saying "here is how it should be changed and improved."
we had a pretty good conversation about adding a critical thinking lesson not long ago as a matter of fact. so, people do work to improve and update the IP but its a slow process. and most would say the real training happens during the apprenticeships. for myself, i say the real IP is our personal lives.

you believe that rank should mean something more than it does, well fair enough; how do you suggest we achieve that and what do you propose to do about all of the people who have rank already? and do you think that youre going to get what you want by arguing people into it? be the example - lead by doing. show us what the standard should look like and then people will be willing to listen

and the music thread is awesome.
so is the grateful thread and the rant thread and all the other little conversations that we have which cumulatively transform a web site into an actual community. if you dont want to participate with those then dont, but they arent going anywhere.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 6 years 11 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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6 years 11 months ago #281915 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic The Problems with TotJO

to ZealotX:
1. It's about you, not the Order.
- Heard this before. Repetition, repetition, repetition. There must be a handbook on how to dispell dissenters. It's the only thing that makes sense at this point.
- If all that I want for a true Jedi Order were to come true and no one knew I had a single thing to do with it I'd be more happy than if they thought I did. I don't want the attention. I wish this had all been said and done long ago. But it hasn't and I feel that it won't if I don't help it along. That's the only reason I'm doing all of this.
2. Ridiculing Jedi Robes
- At least you wear that fear on your sleeve. As I have said above, at first everything is funny. Yes, at first the few of us would be laughed at. But would they laugh at thousands? Would they laugh at a temple? If I am not one of those or a part of the temple I would still be proud it was done. Again, I don't care to glorify myself. But appearance has meaning. The robes give meaning to the man wearing them as a Jedi. The Temple gives meaning to the Order as a real place of center. It is a simple truth. I guess those are the most often disputed though.


With all due respect...

1. You say you don't want the attention and yet here we are with you at the center of attention, telling me that something **you** believe should happen, wont happen without **your** intervention. See what I did there? See how important you are? If you truly believe that it wont happen without you then you are thinking quite highly of yourself. If something "should" happen it will be a decision made by the leadership at the time of their choosing. Saying it wont happen means that either you don't have faith in them or that what you believe "should" happen is not something everyone wants. It's something **you** want. There's nothing wrong with wanting things. The problem arises when you push your wants onto others without consideration of their wants. For instance...
2. If we don't want to wear robes "we" must be wrong. Not you. What you seem to be looking for is Jedi Cosplay with some role playing. That would be more suitable to a fan club rather than a religion. The appearance is not what makes anyone here a Jedi. What it would do is confuse the average person and invite questions about where the Star Wars convention is or is it Halloween. As much as I love the movies I'm not trying to copy the look. I'm in it for the spiritual path. It sounds like you just want people to see us and recognize us as being Jedi. The problem is that anyone could play dress up. If it means something to you then dress up. But if you're doing it to be recognized it wont work and I have proof.

Evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXybxJLi9YA (3:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mZF-pAGJv0

These people have been playing dress up for years and getting no respect because it doesn't mean anything. In fact it looks pretentious and silly, like they're trying to be something they're not. And what is true is that many of them got into it because they were looking for an identity. Trying to "look like" something can't give that to you.
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6 years 11 months ago #281926 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic The Problems with TotJO
Anison

Lot's of pointless conversation has happened here, but the center point of what your doing here is very obvious to me.

You need to know why this is worth your time.

You should stay and do the program because it is a smart move.

You need to ingratiate yourself to the whole Jedi community.

This is the base resource for achieving your goal.

When you are respected by the majority of the greater community that TOTJO is a part of, the weight of your words will be much more powerful and action provoking.

You are also preventing resistance ahead of time by befriending potential enemies, turning them into resources instead of obstacles.

If there is a truly useless bunch of people, it is the group that rolls over and follows you without any resistance whatsoever....because they will do it again when someone else comes along and you will be left with nothing again.

rugadd
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6 years 11 months ago #281937 by Eleven
Replied by Eleven on topic The Problems with TotJO
I find what you say to have some valid points but, they're very shallow in nature. I think you need to realize how much time, money and may I add alot of it is generously donated by members of this temple...and alot of the work and time is unpaid...and at times unappreciated by some over the years. Please take sometime and look at the Council and the offices that are held here at TOTJO, we hold Jedi Camps the last few years, no...not everyone is able to go but, some have been and it has done those who were able to go well, the learning and the hard knocks that I have learned since I started my path in 2011 have changed me physically and Spiritually. You can do as you wish my fellow Jedi and I do view you as such. However, I think your mistaken in several, several aspects or viewpoints of TOTJO. If your in search of a perfect Jedi Church or, temple good luck my friend you won't find it.

But, the choice is up to you from this point on.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit

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6 years 11 months ago #281938 by Eleven
Replied by Eleven on topic The Problems with TotJO
Also, One more thing to add. I was like you when I first came here all excited and everything was new and overwhelming I never knew that there was a community of Jedi that believed in alot of the same things I did. As time went on, I left for a while went and dug wells and homes in India and did some of my person studies before I made a full return. My suggestion saying this is don't lose that joy and don't be in too big of a rush you got time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit
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6 years 11 months ago #282122 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic The Problems with TotJO
Anison,
I can relate to most of what you said. My time is short so I'll be brief:
Problem: No temple
Solution: Build one(I did, costs $500)

Problem: No Jedi presence in the real world
Solution: Join the Rebel Alliance(I did). It's not sanctioned by TOTJO, involves going rogue, and has few members(me). You could also join a regional gathering and attend a retreat(for a very large sum of money). Some people just get together with nearby Jedis. I'm going to the Rainbow national gathering in OR this year(free) and some others may come. It's July 4-11

Problem: IP is flawed
Solution: Fix it. I have requested adding a critical thinking element and it was well received

To answer some of your questions:
why/how does a website with a forum and some Admin. have any say in who is a true Jedi and who isn't? They don't. The only way to tell a true jedi from a fake one is witness their deeds on and off line.

Why should time spent watching and reading some good material be the way to make a Jedi? It isn't. This is a mental training site, sort of like a self-help book. It can show you the path, but you must walk down it.

Does a rank, a banner, on this website mean anything except that one has spent a lot of time grinding through some palpable time management and critical thinking skills? It means whatever you want it to.

Why should I prove my understanding of Jediism and the force through this IP? Because we get tired of answering the same questions over and over. Think of the IP as more of a FAQ and the forums as an evolving FAQ. Imagine 1000 people every week coming in and asking about Jediism... so we say check out the IP.


Anyway, there are some great people here and they've done a lot for me. The only thing I would change is to have a rogue squadron of hard core Jedis take on the rogue squadron of hard core capitalists,­_

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
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6 years 11 months ago #282124 by
Replied by on topic The Problems with TotJO

Whyte Horse wrote: You could also join a regional gathering and attend a retreat(for a very large sum of money). Some people just get together with nearby Jedis.


Michigan is only $100. Hardly a "Very Large Sum".....Just sayin....

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6 years 11 months ago #282128 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic The Problems with TotJO
I agree with a lot of the points on a basic level Anison, but how would you change them? Bruce almighty yourself for a second

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6 years 10 months ago #282418 by
Replied by on topic The Problems with TotJO
I would love to see an international jedi temple, problems with that:
-Where would it be built?
-Would other religions agree with that?
-The cost of maitenace of such a building would be huge

The IP is important fot young jedi to learn some of the basics of the jedi, what you do with your trainining, that only depends of you.
"how does a website tells who is a true jedi?" Well the IP teach us about the jedi code that was created by Lucas and Lucas is like the Grand Master Yoda of the jedi order...

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6 years 10 months ago #284882 by FTPC
Replied by FTPC on topic The Problems with TotJO
I have been here for two years, My problem with Tojo is Journal Security,
they need to better Journal Security around here. keyword NEED

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