Feminism

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13 Jun 2013 23:08 #109366 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Feminism
LOL ren. I preferred female teachers.

I went to 6 schools in the first 6 years of education so I had a fair few different ones. I'd striate teachers into three categories;
1. really good teachers - gender is irrelevant
2. less then ideal, competent teachers - I actually found less then ideal female teachers to be better then less then ideal male teachers. The female's seemed to be a bit more compassionate and less of tools which the middle road males were in this category
3. really bad teachers - gender is irrelevant

I find it much more useful to look at the neuroanatomy, hormones and established cultural models to gender differences if we have to go there, then flicking useless statistics at each other. It reminds me of monkey's in a cage....

.... but its not a topic I have much interest in or time to bother with. It reminds me too much of my local nation's leader who is the first female to run this country. A couple of day's ago she put feminism backwards about 10 years by claiming the opposition would run women out of government and take control over abortion rights and then proceeded to rally women to vote for her to avoid men taking over government.
:ohmy:

Here you go ren, you might love/hate this. She invented it all to try and win votes. Her own treasurer (male) wore a blue tie when he did his budget speech earlier in the year, and the party she is oppossing has a female deputy leader and other women senators, and abortion is a political non-issue here because no-one is changing it or even discussing it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5Mw6KL_FA

I think all she did here was make men, perhaps like ren, who already distrust women in power have good reason to rally against it. Even the local radical feminists said what she said was rubbish. It does not set a good example for being the first female leader here.

Which is a point raised in chat, women in power now/currently are the products of the remnants of the old systems based on patriarchy. They started and worked through unfair systems and had to play by the broken rules to get there.

So they may have come through the 'glass ceiling' but often they unfortunately learnt a lot of bad habits along the way. Necessary to survive and achieve in a male dominated workplace of the last 30 years, but not really contemporary best practise. So we still have feminism today in the developed world because the process seem's to still be finishing off. I guess (by contrast) in the near future once women who have reached power through an equal rights workplace start to feedback into their organisation's a more balanced and rational leadership style it might be less scary for us guys who are used to the way it used to be.

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Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
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13 Jun 2013 23:17 #109367 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Feminism
I attended a convent for all but 1 year of my education, so I've only ever had three male teachers. One was fired because he used to make us massage his shoulders during class and deliberately humiliated us if we didnt know the answer to something. The other was the most extraordinary teacher Ive ever had and is responsible for my love of literature and the arts. The third couldnt cope with us and left.

I dont know that gender had anything to do with it. The one was utterly incompetant, one unsuited to teaching and the other a marvel



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Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

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13 Jun 2013 23:58 #109372 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Feminism

ren wrote: What cost?

Sometimes dignity. Sometimes safety. Sometimes security. Sometimes the way of life they're accustomed to. Sometimes their lives.

ren wrote: Another point: You know how feminists always make it look like women have such a crappy time living under the evil patriarchy?
Well, why is it that men tend to commit suicide more than women? (maybe related to Ryu's LOSS? )

Because this lovely "patriarchy" that men have built for themselves, on the designs of a grand but fictional idealization of "manhood", prevent us from properly exorcising the demons of our emotions without looking weak and frail, and the modernization of Western society has robbed us of our traditional coping mechanisms: adrenaline and violence.

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14 Jun 2013 01:18 #109385 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Feminism
I'm not saying ability to teach has anything to do with gender. I don't think it does. (my favourite teacher was a middle aged woman in pre-school, my best maths teacher was a woman too) But personal values have an impact in everything we do and say. On how we approach subject. On how we deal with unruly children. etc. If the majority of teachers have the same beliefs and political affiliations it will impact their students. I know because I can see how their political affiliations impacted me. I realized how much it did when I left the education system (and travelled a bit, experienced all sorts of different things, crime, work in the military, different cultures, etc) and compared myself with people who hadn't. I remember the student riots in France and how appalling i thought they were. To me, those people the same age as me were mouthy little brats, and just a few years before that, I was one of them. I mean, I reached a point where I though, those guys are preventing people who wish to get an education from accessing their own schools, greatly damaging the buildings and furniture, which are paid for by the taxpayer for the betterment of their fellow citizens... I literally thought: education is both a human and constitutional right, why isn't the government sending in the army?

As steamboat points out men are just as likely to be harsh on their kind. That's how it used to be. And that's how it still is, even for women. A man's opinion of a woman's body is likely to be "dat ass", but women? "she's gotten fat, dresses like a tramp".... In my experience there are no limits!

the fact is, in the old so-called patriarchal system, which i prefer to call the gender-role system, although things were expected of us based on our gender (which isn't fair), people also had respect for this. men were respected for the sacrifices they made, and so were women. Men had some privileges, women had some other privileges (I mean, were we not told from the earliest age that it's never OK to hit a girl? military service, women have long controlled most of household spending, etc).

Now no-one's got a role, but no-one's got any respect either.


Regarding the video: Feminist claims in western democracies regarding the domincance of men on the political stage are moot. the reason for this is not only that women outnumber men, but women of voting age outnumber them even more. Besides, bringing the gender card to the table is nothing but a distraction. All politicians are corrupt bastards, no matter what party/gender/race/tie.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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14 Jun 2013 01:30 #109388 by
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A pimp may be bad, but for a single mum. Some governments
under value citizens. My statue is neither for or against but
as eye of beholder. Books refrain my mind simply. Men that are
brought up without. Value live by sex alone (saddening).
Mums having a baby to wrong dad and don't know occupation
value. You take the skimpy clothes away from a mum without
a wardrope, or partner. You have humiliation to mankind.

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14 Jun 2013 01:31 #109389 by
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Ren, This whole topic got started by you with the statement that prostitution oppresses men, and has since devolved into "hard cold facts" like feminist teachers are taking over education and causing men to commit suicide. Us poor men are doomed!!!!
Re,n do you see a common thread in your line of thinking about woman?

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14 Jun 2013 01:45 #109392 by
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I stand by the statement that sexism against men cannot exist. Individual biases against men are not the same as cultural beliefs that men are less than women. It is not the same thing as deeply ingrained systematic oppression. I wouldn't say someone was oppressing brown haired people if a few people told me they can't stand brown haired people and want nothing to do with me because of it. So a few women hating men for being men is not the same as sexism, which is an oppressive system.

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14 Jun 2013 01:50 #109394 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Feminism

Re,n do you see a common thread in your line of thinking about woman?


Yes. I don't agree with them being prostitutes. Probably the one thing most feminists(not all though) and I agree on. Thanks for pointing that out. I still disapprove of feminism though.

Ren, This whole topic got started by you with the statement that prostitution oppresses men, and has since devolved into "hard cold facts" like feminist teachers are taking over education and causing men to commit suicide. Us poor men are doomed!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

Is it such a crime to ask that men be blamed only for shit they've actually done?

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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14 Jun 2013 01:56 #109396 by Brenna
Replied by Brenna on topic Feminism

ren wrote:

Re,n do you see a common thread in your line of thinking about woman?


Yes. I don't agree with them being prostitutes. Probably the one thing most feminists(not all though) and I agree on. Thanks for pointing that out. I still disapprove of feminism though.


Is it such a crime to ask that men be blamed only for shit they've actually done?


Really? Most feminists I know defend the right of a women to consensually sell her body if she so desires.

And no, its not too much to ask. I do have to agree with you there.



Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet

Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.

With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me

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14 Jun 2013 01:58 #109397 by
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Ren, It's just time to own that your "hard cold facts" or fait accompli are more like "soft warm opinions"

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