Feminism

I think there are male and female concepts that live in the general psyche of our race and that genetics and history attributes different, common denominator traits to them. I also think that despite the organ present on our bodies we may or may not be more suited to one or the other. This would also include the mind we have developed over our life. I think a balance of these concepts is healthy as do I believe extremes of the two are necessary. I think people should admit there are attributes they either wish they had or do have and don't know how to consolidate with the "spirit" for lack of a better word of the sex in question.

I don't see why either can be blamed for anything when the only real problem is people are jerks for whatever reason and other people like to feed their negative emotions like its going out of style.

The more you do a thing, generally, the better you get at it. And that includes thinking unpleasent thoughts and seeing unpleasant things. And blaming people.

No it's not just Ren who runs into these sexist-feminist-women. I run into them all the time in the US. In Asia I never ran into them unless I was around western women.

That would be because western cultures are more progressive than eastern cultures...when overseas I also noticed that asian women (chinese and japanese mostly) treated me more kindly and acted more feminine than westernized women...

RyuJin wrote: That would be because western cultures are more progressive than eastern cultures...when overseas I also noticed that asian women (chinese and japanese mostly) treated me more kindly and acted more feminine than westernized women...

Define "acted more feminine"

Edit - Actually curious as to your definition, not stiring.

Lol, it doesn't seem like "stirring" to me....seems like a legitimate question...

They acted more feminine in the traditional sense of subservient obedience...the man comes first, sit quietly, don't speak unless spoken to...yadda,yadda,yadda...basically the ideal stereotype traditional womanly thing...(bleh)

Personally I like women that can fend for themselves, strong/athletic,intelligent,but still have that "softness/kindness" to them...acts like a lady,but isn't afraid to get rough/dirty with it when needed...not a fan of the "princess" types or any other high maintenance type...if she can rock a designer dress while giving a beatdown she's in...

The issue I have with most (not all) feminists is that they tend to be sexist (anti-male)...separate but equal is not true equality...there are things men can do,and do better than most women...and there are things women can do,and do better than most men...there are always exceptions to every rule...

RyuJin wrote: They acted more feminine in the traditional sense of subservient obedience...the man comes first, sit quietly, don't speak unless spoken to...yadda,yadda,yadda...basically the ideal stereotype traditional womanly thing...(bleh)

Ren, Whyte Horse, is this the kind of feminine behaviour that you both prefer that you would like to find more of in western women?


*again, not stiring genuinely curious

My missus is from africa (no, not the villages you see on TV), and quite modern and not feminist, but not submissive or anything like that either. just normal. (she also only extremely rarely puts makeup on, and I like that)

I don't really run into feminists. Or maybe I do. But they'd be told to "f off" before they could even start their abuse, not what I'd call "running into". More like "over". the problem is that they're everywhere. they're in government, on the news... They pass outrageously sexist laws in rounds of applause.

Since, as Wendaline pointed out, laws vary depending on jurisdiction, here's an article (from a liberal newspaper) that shows some of the situations in which men are discriminated against in the United Kingdom.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/may/07/men-gender-divide-feminism

And car insurance in the UK is twice the price for men, Wendaline. It's compulsory, and for many young men, it means they can't have a car unless they're willing to spend half their salary on it (basically, they still have to live at mum's, who's probably the main driver of the car on the insurance papers actually).

You know nobody is going to win, right?

in a gender battle, no. That's why feminism has to come to an end.

And frankly, wouldn't we be better served thinking about the solution instead of the problem?

Isn't the solution to sexism, non-sexism? that's what I'm preaching here lol.

I'm arguing with Abhaya Budhil because he said it is not possible for men do be discriminated against on the basis of their gender. I put it to him that this very statement was sexist, and the product of feminism. Not to mention illogical, I mean, if you have a characteristic that isn't shared by everyone else, then those people can discriminate against you on the basis of that characteristic, no matter what that characteristic is.

As for celebs...both male and female celebs are trashed. It's part of being famous.

trashed for having medical problems? cancer? My experience of the media tells me that when a woman has medical issues, she's strong. Overall I'd have to say that women who support part of the feminist agenda are presented as strong and independent, etc, and those who don't, are not presented in such a way.

RyuJin wrote:
that can fend for themselves, strong/athletic,intelligent,but still have that "softness/kindness" to them...acts like a lady,but isn't afraid to get rough/dirty with it when needed...

Other then "acting like a lady" aren't these traits you'd like to see in any personal relationship you might have? Men and women alike should have these traits, not only women. I like t see people who act like themselves, and are compassionate towards those they care about as well as respectful to those that deserve it. Agreed, some women make the cause of feminism an anti-man campaign but that is because true equality for all people is an impossible goal to achieve, you will never get all people to agree on what is fair. If you care for the people you love, regardless of gender or race, then they turn around and do the same and the cycle continues then what more could you ask for? I swear sometimes people miss the simple meanings of things when they try to damn hard to fight against someone else. The truth could be right in front of your eyes, you just need to be willing to give something in exchange for it.

Brenna wrote:

RyuJin wrote: They acted more feminine in the traditional sense of subservient obedience...the man comes first, sit quietly, don't speak unless spoken to...yadda,yadda,yadda...basically the ideal stereotype traditional womanly thing...(bleh)

Ren, Whyte Horse, is this the kind of feminine behaviour that you both prefer that you would like to find more of in western women?


*again, not stiring genuinely curious

I'm not asking women to behave in any particular way. My personal taste in women are the kind that are as horny as I am. physically, my missus' shape. That's about it.

My argument is against feminism, not against women (or their rights), or women's behaviour. I actually understand why feminism started as a sexist, and not humanist movement. feminism is the most powerful lobby there is, and a lobby never represents the interests of the entirety of the population, therefore it has to go.

Although feminists (at least, most of them) look like an ugly bunch to me, they are no different from muslim fundamentalists telling all the infidels to convert or die. And like the muslim fundamentalists, I wish they'd stop all the BS and get a grip. Nothing's easy or ideal for anyone.

There have been studies done where men are shown a resume with a female's name at the top and asked to talk about their thoughts on the candidate. They say she is too aggressive, an overachiever, under-qualified, etc. They then show an identical resume to men with a male's name at the top. That candidate gets a much better review.

Nobody is harassing anyone by what they personally choose to wear. Everyone can dress the way they want. There is a difference between a friend grabbing your crotch and a coworker making you uncomfortable with touching you and making sexual remarks about you. Also, men are not generally told that their bodies belong to women in the way women are told their bodies belong to men, so they don't tend to feel as violated by sexual harassment because it isn't something they have been forced to endure on a consistent basis. I am saying this from my experience living as a female vs. my experience living as a male. I can tell you there are absolutely differences.

Women are overrepresented in lower paying industries.

Women are constantly told they need to look nice, they need to learn to cook well, they need to learn to clean well. Not because they will have to live alone someday. They are told they need to do these things because they will someday have a husband and children to take care of. And if they say they don't want children, they are told they will change their minds later. When I say I don't want children people just say oh okay, and everyone moves on.

If a woman has a child and no career, they are expected to stay home and take care of the children. If a man has children and no career, he is not expected to stay home anyway.

Pointing out exceptions to the rule in politics doesn't change anything. Of course there are some women high up in politics. But not many. And hardly any in the highest positions.

Talking about people in charge, again individual instances don't change the general rule. Most higher ups in business are men.

When male children are encouraged to be more active than female children, it doesn't matter which parent is telling them that. I'm not absolving women from all guilt. Women perpetuate their own oppression, as does virtually any oppressed group. They do it without meaning to. They are just as much a product of the patriarchy as anyone else is.

People tend to think women are not as good at handling finances and that men have to keep them in check so the women don't spend too much money. So when an individual woman does happen to be careless, it is seen as a black mark against all women. It is further proof for everyone that women can't handle money.

Again with driving. Insurance companies might have facts and figures that men drive more recklessly, but the general population loves to make fun of women for not being able to drive, and when a woman really can't drive that is just used as proof that women can't drive.

It doesn't matter who is calling who a slut. Again, women are guilty as well. Misogyny can be internalized. It is all still part of a system that favors men.

Women wear skimpy clothes for a number of reasons. Maybe it is too hot out, maybe they are mirroring what they see in media, or maybe they just feel good in skimpy clothes. If a woman is sexually available, she has to wear skimpy clothes because covering up sends the message that she is not sexually available. I go out i whatever jeans and tshirt happens to be clean and people treat me just the same either way.

Women have to wear makeup, wear jewelry, have equipment for making their hair look good, pluck their upper lip, either get their eyebrows done or spend time plucking them by themselves, shave their legs, shave their armpits, and sometimes even shave their arms. Men shave their faces and maybe put some gel in their hair.

Men who are not attractive are often seen as just average looking. People cannot usually find an average looking woman. They are either attractive or ugly. There is no in between.

Men are expected to be aggressive and loud, which means women are criticized for it. I get called a dick and a bastard when I'm being a jerk. Women get called a bitch when they are just being loud or arguing with someone. Also, men get called pussies, but again that's for showing weakness and feminine qualities, and it's a reference to females as inherently bad.

Why should women be questioned about their ability to make decisions just because of their menstrual cycle? Also, I do have a menstrual cycle, and so do other men, but we don't get called into question even from people who know we have a menstrual cycle because somehow just by being men we are more competent even when we are menstruating.

Many women, and feminists, think that men should also have paternity leave so that women can have fairer opportunities in jobs. Also, not every woman wants to have a family or take time off work to raise their children, so assuming that they do want to and making hiring decisions based on those assumptions is again assuming that women belong in the home.

Your experience is not the same as the general rule. Of course there are exceptions. In many houses, men do yard work and handy work while women clean messes and gross things. When women have to stay home and clean all day they often do not make meaningful relationships with people. Men might not have fun at work, but at least they are around other people and have a chance to get out of the house.

Advertisements of scantily clad people are made for the opposite gender. However, they send messages to the same gender about what we should look like. Yes, there are sexy images of men, but not as many. The average female sees an average of 400 images that show her how to look on any given day. I don't see nearly that many of men. Some days I don't see any.

Fat women are comedic. They are not respected. They have a harder time finding jobs than fat men do. Fat men can still be respected. They might have to work harder at it than skinny men, but not as hard as fat women.

In an average conversation, women talk more times, but men talk for longer. Or maybe I have that backwards. Anyway, studies have shown that men spend more of the conversation speaking if you keep track of how many minutes people speak for. So men should be more likely to get cut off in an average conversation because they are speaking more.

The general rule is that women face way more street harassment than men. How do you know if I am attractive to women? A lot of women actually find me attractive.

Women do have to think about where they might get raped. There are some places they don't want to go alone even when men would go there alone, there are some places they cannot go at night, they often run to their cars at night or walk down the street with keys between their fingers in case they meet someone who thinks it is okay to harass them. Men don't usually do those things.

Women get insulted for being too feminine. Men get insulted for being to feminine. Women get insulted for not knowing their place as women. Being a women is seen as a bad thing. That's why being a transmale is not as stigmatized as being a transfemale. The worst thing a person born male can do is transition to being a female because being a woman is so terrible.

Whyte Horse, not all feminists are women. I am a male feminist, and I know plenty of others.