Feminism

Brenna wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote:

Brenna wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: .

Another problem I see is obesity. When I travelled to other countries without obesity epidemics, I found that 90% of all the women I saw were surprisingly attractive and open minded towards sex, relationships, etc. In the US the amount of attractive women is very low. I mean they would be attractive if they lost 500lbs or so. But anyway they're not. So that just leaves a handful of women (say 5%) that are attractive while 95% are not.

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I dont understand what the obesity statistic (Incidently The most recently reported stats put obese women at around 27-30% for caucasian women and at around 40% for african american, slightly lower for hispanic) has to do with men being unable to have sex and being forced to pay for it. Also, by your statement that would assume that all fat women are denying men sex and all thin women are prostitutes. After all, if obesity is a factor then men wouldnt be going to see fat prostitutes, right? And im not going to post links because that will more than likely get me thrown out of here, but you need to go and have a look at how much money women online are making from being obese, and sexy. And what about thin women who are not attractive? Where do they fit in here?

Also the statistics for obese men is pretty close to that of women, so maybe the issue is that women dont want to sleep with fat men, forcing men to seek out prostitutes?

And while we are overlooking issues here, what about the women (who are in the majority in the sex industry) who have little education or other marketable skills and are forced to rely on prostitution as a way to survive. Shall we also bring up the number of women who are addicted to narcotics who are forced to prostitute themselves in order to pay for their habit because they are unable to access medical care?

Yes, men may feel that they are hard done by,having to pay for sex. Absolutely there are women who happily go into the sex trade willingly and who thoroughly enjoy their work, but the majority of women who are prostitutes dont feel like they have any alternative, they arent selling because they want to, but because they feel they have to.

Yes, western women can be terrible companions. Perhaps we should revoke their right to decide they want in relationships and force them to settle for whatever man will take them, who might give less than they take in a relationship. Hell, why stop there, why dont we just strip them of all rights and a voice and force them to be available to mens needs and whims with no regard for their own beliefs and values and goals in life. Seems like a much simpler system. How dare women have needs and wants, and not just be willing holes for someones amusement. The nerve of them. Next time I see any of the three long term partners Ive had who all turned out to be horrible abusive people (and I dont say that lightly or with exageration), I'll let them know that I was just being difficult and demanding too high a price for my sexual services.

Women can be terrible companions, but so can men. One gender is no worse than the other.

OK Brenna, let's consider overweight and obese people. Now we're not talking about 35% of adults but 70%. I'm sure we can argue the finer points of "slightly overweight" and how this is only skin deep and it's really the person on the inside that matters... but the reality is that most men aren't attracted to overweight women.

Your sarcasm isn't well received at all. It's childish. I'd respond to your other points but after you insulted me you can go suck an egg.

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I'm sorry you find it insulting that I've pointed out that the statistics you use to support your arguments are factually inaccurate. And yes, the sarcasm is unnecessary, but for me personally unsubstantiated opinions presented as statistical facts isn't well recieved at all.


Edit. Actually, I am sorry. That was unnecessary of me. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

OK I forgive you. I'm always glad to have people point out when the facts contradict what I'm saying. In this case though, they seem to support the notion that fat may be causing suffering.

Adder wrote:

ren wrote: Imagine I want to promote higher minimum wage, but only for men? it's sexist.

Equal rights in the workplace is sexist, or affirmative action is sexist, or radical fringe sexual politics is sexist? My answers would be no, yes and yes, but affirmative action is meant to be short term action to achieve that equal rights in the workplace balance which was near non-existent 60 years ago. It's silly to forget the oppression that women had in the workplace and society in the past. A Jedi is about equal rights and freedom's - balance. You achieve balance by putting force where it is needed to create balance. Not resisting change because you were more comfortable leaning on one foot.

I'll use a car analogy. If we want to take a photo of the two cars crossing a finish line together, at the same time, but the blue car gets a rolling start while the red car is stationary, then it is not unfair to let the red car go faster until it catches up. Those in the backseat of blue car scared of women drivers are the anti-feminists, the bloke driving the blue car is the humanist, the women driving the red car are the feminists and the women in the back seat egging her on to overtake and win are the radical feminists.
:lol:

Well your car analogy explains it well... The point isn't to arrive at the finish line together. no race cars are identical. Doesn't matter what colour they come in. What matter is that they're both at the starting line together. Affirmative action is sexist (or racist, etc) and shouldnt exist. Look at south africa. does it look like affirmative action is working well there? it's extremely unfair.

If we were in a situation where, let's say, women are responsbile for educating girls and men are responsible for educating boys. It is understandable that, if the women in charge of educating the girls are uneducated but the men are educated, boys and girls don't start from the same point.
A situation like this is unfair, and it seems reasonable to say that the girls should have an equal right to be educated by the men (who in this scenario are the only people who know anything).
but this is no affirmative action. This is equal access to education.
Affirmative action would be to let the girls get a "not as good" education as the boys, but then equalize their marks with those of the boys through artificial inflation. That's affirmative action, and that's wrong. ANd I'm not talking about fairness of competition or whatever, what I'm saying is that it's a really stupid thing to do and something that will eventually cause problems.

TO go back to cars, society is like a car engine. It's complex, has many moving parts, and it can easily develop multiple faults. a cheap fix may get you to the next petrol station, but let's be honest, that stop-leak you used on your gasket is ruining your engine. the only way you can avoid a rebuild is to take your time, do things carefully, one step at a time, don't overlook anything and ask yourself some serious questions before using that hammer on anything.

I'm going to have to agree with Ren that many feminists are also sexists. It's also a well-known postulate that most western women grow up to become feminists of the sexist school of thought. This makes it very difficult to have relationships. I know a lot of dudes who have become symbolically emasculated by these kinds of women. There are also a lot of manipulative women in the west. I can relate to what megamind has experienced.

They say Chinese women are nice? Well it's actually Eastern women in general. They seem to have cultures where family is important and men are treated as equals and so the man's happiness is important to them.

I'm also going to have to agree that feminism (of the non-sexist school of thought) actually does help men. Think about the effects of your mom, sister, daughter, etc all having equal rights. Although men and women will never be equal, we should have equal rights, and feminism is one way of bringing this about. This is also known as righteous egalitarianism and is considered by many to be Utopia.

ren wrote: A situation like this is unfair, and it seems reasonable to say that the girls should have an equal right to be educated by the men (who in this scenario are the only people who know anything).
but this is no affirmative action. This is equal access to education.

That's the intention of affirmative action, to give equal access (rights). That is why it, like feminism itself, is a process of balance. Once balance is achieved then feminism and things like affirmative action really are not required.

Unfortunately only a few countries in the world are anywhere near that level of equity yet, with the vast majority of the world still operating under sexist patriarchal orders, mostly religious based but also in areas of poverty where violence and manual labor is more predominant ie; the rest of the world.

Adder wrote: Unfortunately only a few countries in the world are anywhere near that level of equity yet, with the vast majority of the world still operating under sexist patriarchal orders, mostly religious based but also in areas of poverty where violence and manual labor is more predominant ie; the rest of the world.

I went to one of the poorest countries in the world, Indonesia, and lived there for a while. The president is a woman... women have their own councils and equally control the gov't...

I think many westerners mistakenly assume that all countries that are behind in economic development are even more behind in human development and that they resemble our own past patriarchal, sexist order. But in reality, if you go back far enough you find the Native Americans and they treated women pretty good. Indonesia could be said to be more advanced than the US because they have a female president... etc

Sexism against men does not exist. Just like racism against white people does not exist, heterophobia does not exist, etc. Feeling bitter about the ruling class (in this case, men) does not make you sexist. It is justified because they have power over you. It is just individual feelings that don't create systematic harm in the same way that oppression does. Why was the woman allowed to hit the man in that video? Because women are seen as weak and inferior. If women were seen as men's equals, that would not have been allowed to happen. In that case feminism would benefit the man by allowing the abusive woman to be seen as an abuser and not just seen like every other crazy woman who can't do any real harm.

Abhaya Budhil wrote: Sexism against men does not exist. Just like racism against white people does not exist,

Really !?!?!?!? :blink:

Wescli Wardest wrote:

Abhaya Budhil wrote: Sexism against men does not exist. Just like racism against white people does not exist,

Really !?!?!?!? :blink:

Yeah, you must have never worked in an office where you are the only male. I can tell you firsthand it is alive and well in alabama. Can't speak for whatever social utopia you reside in, tho.

Any group of people can be baised against any other. Your blanket statements are factually wrong.

I tell you the guy's been completely brainswahsed. But he's far from being the only one. I mentioned earlier than women have taken over the education sector, and it is not without impact... (I mean, what are the odds that a service-sector female government employee is going not to be a feminist, right? As a kid I could see my teachers' political inclinations...)

I think the only thing feminism did for men is that they're less likely to get killed by their wives (though I could be wrong). But we've also reached a point where suicide is the main cause of death in young men. I wonder if being treated like shit all the time has anything to do with it?


If you want an example of sexism against men, In the UK, men have to work 5 more years than women, despite living shorter lives. Also, the public sector is dominated by women. Yet the public sector also has a right to prefer women to men when employing new people, just because of their gender.

@ Ren…

Where I’m not going to say you’ve gone and lost it, nor am I going to say that I disagree with your statements and opinions; I will say that you have a rather… “cheeky” way of saying things.

Sometimes I wonder if you ARE trying to elicit an emotional response from others. :huh:


hahahha :laugh: :silly: :woohoo: