Possible world wide revolution?

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13 Nov 2018 00:24 #329071 by Uzima Moto

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: The Force has crafted us to be free in our being. Mentally, Spiritually, and physically.. Nature, and its God, has bestowed upon us free will to act, mind to navigate, and heart to connect. Any attempt to arrest the will of another without injury or provocation is tantamount to War..


Has it really? How have you come to this conclusion? That the force of nature bestowed upon you anything or even cares about your existence? It seems more plausible that you were made only to suffer at the cruel hand of nature. 99% of this universe will kill you outright and the small portion that will not will torture you mercilessly. The cruelty of human nature to the pain and suffering you must endure to the dangers of just living your life, it seems to me that nature will kill you without a thought or consideration as to what you think. How has such a system bestowed anything on you? If a God is responsible for this he is a cruel and evil god.


I don't share that point of view at all.. I'm not speaking on Nature, or its God, as something mainly outside of us. No, it's in the way we a structured and what our minds are capable of.. it's part of what we are as reasoning beings..

Though life and death exist in this material universe. Life strives to live despite the entropic darkness that tries to rend it apart. Thus, dualism..

I have to say. Equality is nothing without liberty except equal enslavement in my thinking. That doesn't mean we have to enslave ourselves in order to achieve some level of mutual protection. That doesn't mean that we lose the sovereignty, or right there of, nature gives us..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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13 Nov 2018 00:34 #329073 by Uzima Moto
Are we so far removed from The Force and Nature that we fear our natural liberty as dangerous?..

Personally, I'd rather have dangerous liberty than peaceful servitude..

Society works best when people are free. Liberty works best when people are moral.
Law is supposed to only activate when people act against one another..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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13 Nov 2018 00:37 #329075 by Uzima Moto
Life is full of beauty and energy. There is no Death, no duality in The Force..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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13 Nov 2018 00:43 - 13 Nov 2018 00:47 #329076 by Adder
You were critical of the 'West' in particular in regards to having 'no freedoms', so I thought you might have had a preferred model. It seemed to be maximum freedom of the individual, which to me seems to be moral nihilism..... but it's a bit hard to follow in conversation (for me at least) when you go from such specificity about the West, to the very broad concepts of the Force, and also because now your talking about morals as well, which is outside of moral nihilism. If you are talking about reality as you say, then what is your preferred real structure for a society without laws? Come what come may is not really a suitable answer in my opinion, because its apt only when pitched from an ivory tower, whether that be of stone or of mind.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 13 Nov 2018 00:47 by Adder.

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13 Nov 2018 01:10 #329077 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Uzima Moto wrote: Are we so far removed from The Force and Nature that we fear our natural liberty as dangerous?..

Personally, I'd rather have dangerous liberty than peaceful servitude..

Society works best when people are free. Liberty works best when people are moral.
Law is supposed to only activate when people act against one another..


The problem with this idea is that people are not moral, at least not innately. The force has imbued us with nothing of the sort. It is something that is entirely subjective and only when we begin to come together to agree on certain assumptions do we ever begin to create an objective moral reality. It is a never ending process and laws of a society are the end result. Because of this it is liberty under law that actually provides the greatest freedom to the individual.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

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13 Nov 2018 02:11 #329082 by Uzima Moto
To answer Adder:
Laws should protect liberty at its rightful extent. Meaning law should protect your right to your person and your property. It should also respect the peaceful exercise of your sovereignty as a free individual. We exist as individuals after all.. codependent but independent individuals.. theft and assault are objectively wrong. No person has right to what isn't theirs. Whether it be body, property, or life.. However, since everyone doesn't observe that. Law brings violations into subjection in order to rectify the injury..

To Kyrin:
Are you certain The Force hasn't created us with the free will to act as we please? That our ability to reason gives us a right to do so without coercion or force? Just because everybody isn't moral doesn't mean everybody is suspect. I realize true liberty can only exist in moral societies. As followers of The Force. I believe we are meant to encourage moral behavior to respect Life. However, Law doesn't create liberty. Law can only preserve it. It's Law under Liberty, and both under Love..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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13 Nov 2018 02:13 #329083 by Yabuturtle
Like with everything there need to be some balance. Not anarchy or totalitarianism. There should be structure but with minimal laws and many freedoms people can enjoy. Personally there really are too many laws even in the land of the free.

I think the idea is if people in the middle ages can get corrupt by running a town or a castle or kingdom, what do you think people who have billions upon billions of dollars with so much access to land, media food water ect. Don't you think they would be pretty corrupt?

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13 Nov 2018 02:13 #329084 by Uzima Moto
In truth, Law takes the place of retaliation, a law of the Jungle. Uncivilized nature..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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13 Nov 2018 02:24 - 13 Nov 2018 02:28 #329085 by Adder
Yes I think it mediates our competitive nature (albeit perhaps not essence) into something that can be better managed and directed to good rather then bad. Which seems to be 'money'. In the 'West' we're all born into a big competition for achieving freedom from having to work to survive, ie freedom of ones time and the capability to do something with it once having it. That means power, which enables bad rather then good, but does not necessitate it IMO.
But, in many other places there is no freedom to escape that. Obviously dictatorships and brutal regimes restrict freedoms in man ways, but even IMO socialism does, seemingly institutionalizing that containment of the 'worker' to 'work' by pretending to be able to do various things and solve various problems by keeping the worker in the line on the job.
All that makes sense to me because I think we are inherently good to ourselves (when able), and so any effort to be bad (to ourselves of any one else) is a choice - just like it is a choice to be good to any one else. The underlying paradigm then being existence is survival, which means an ability to react to change successfully, and keep surviving - and it seems we work better as a team of individuals :side:

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 13 Nov 2018 02:28 by Adder.

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13 Nov 2018 05:30 #329100 by Gisteron

Uzima Moto wrote: Lol Contrails..

Yes, most hilarious.


Uzima Moto wrote: Life is full of beauty and energy. There is no Death, no duality in The Force..

No balance, perhaps?


Uzima Moto wrote: Are you certain The Force hasn't created us with the free will to act as we please?

Can't speak for Kyrin here, but I am. Pretty sure there is no way to describe us in any such way that would render free will even intuitive, let alone evident.


Yabuturtle wrote: I think the idea is if people in the middle ages can get corrupt by running a town or a castle or kingdom, what do you think people who have billions upon billions of dollars with so much access to land, media food water ect. Don't you think they would be pretty corrupt?

Oh, we do. As we did the last 37 times you asked as if it did anything to substantiate the concrete claims of their machinations. Didn't you want to tell us more about what substance they spray into the sky that despite not being present in it in abundance resists dissipation better than water?

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