About THAT video and what it means to "Build Up"

Kohadre wrote:

elizabeth wrote: Whow people really need a sense of humour here..

Yeah, it's not like there's anything to loose our heads over....:dry:

Oh, I see, so posting the video is poor taste, but trivialiazing it with a pun is all fun. Gotcha.

Oh, I see, so posting the video is poor taste, but trivialiazing it with a pun is all fun. Gotcha.

It lightens the mood as far as people getting intense over phrasing and policy and so on, whilst giving a subtle reminder that the issue at the very base of all this is quite a serious one requiring gravitas.


Of course, these things translate terribly, and in one world something that works well can come off crass and insensitive in another.

(I'm working on a method for including humour in leadership for something I'm doing world-side, so I thought I'd throw my shilling in here too)

How about you read a little more into it. JameSand got the intent of the message, and others seemed to as well.

Unfortunately, sarcasm doesn't communicate well on the internet, as is evident here.

Kohadre wrote: How about you read a little more into it. JameSand got the intent of the message, and others seemed to as well.

Unfortunately, sarcasm doesn't communicate well on the internet, as is evident here.

Oh don't get me wrong, I found it hilarious. Just pointing out the crazy subjectiveness of what constitutes as offensive or not.

JamesSand wrote: Nope, nope and nope (also Hyundai, Jif, Hoover and Red Rooster - just want to give a good spread for the brands we're spruiking)

I have not actually seen the video, here or elsewhere, but I know what atrocities look like so I can more or less imagine what it was.

Well your one of the lucky few then. Many of the horrors I have seen were by accident and with scrambling to hit the pause or back button too late.

Regardless

Its a give and take in a Community like this. Be respectful...but don't be so overtly sensitive either

This is just a reply upon reflection of OB's opening post, and I realize that this could likely get lost in all the noise going on here if not even just turned around and shot with holes for the convenience of someone else's views...

I don't believe the purpose of this temple is to promote some idea of the cold harsh dangerous world out there. I think the manipulation of the news media gives plenty enough of that. It would be insulting to a place like this to run what we are learning in that direction. This isn't to say however, that we deny the existence of the dangers that do exist - OF COURSE. We would be fooling ourselves to try to ignore or deny it.

The danger with focusing on these kinds of things though, is that it fosters feelings and perceptions toward our world (resentment, paranoia, anger, hatred, ignorance, etc) in which created the very dangers that we might be threatened with in the first place, and I can't see this temple ever wanting to be in the business of creating some continuation of that.

That said, when it comes to what we are learning here, I believe what we are aiming to learn about and become aware about has more to do with the inner world of ourselves than it does the outer world out there. Again, this isn't saying that the outer world is ignored because we absolutely must acknowledge and develop an appreciation toward the outer world. However, the reason why the priority ought to lie on the inner world among that, is because it is the inner world that we have any control over, and it can only be through what we develop in the inner world that can allow for any kind of influence in the right direction toward the outer world.

This must mean that we have to take more consideration toward the "inner worlds" of others around us. If we're not, we can easily end up stranding someone out into the same outer-world perception of reality that ultimately leads to the place your run-of-the-mill terrorist is made from. These are not the kinds of matters that we can dictate what is good for someone else. You don't really know. You can only speak for you because you don't know what kind of mental or emotional state other people at this temple are in. There are some of us that are very vulnerable going through their training, having crisis of identity, of faith and spirituality, and more. If you throw the "cold harsh reality of the outer world" out there in front of their eyes at the wrong time, it could be devastating, and set them back or even worse, sideways, to a very destructive place (and I don't mean "destructive to be constructive" either).

So I would like to ask that before you think you know what is good for the temple (and what you think this temple ought to be for), please have some consideration for the people around you and what you really don't know about them.

"So I would like to ask that before you think you know what is good for the temple (and what you think this temple ought to be for), please have some consideration for the people around you and what you really don't know about them."
Thank you brother Proteus I know you do not post for post sake and a small thank you button check would not do this justice . I am glad to share these ideas with you as well as others.
May the Temple , our Temple, live on ... In us !

Proteus wrote: Stuff

Yikes, who invited the guy with the compassion and thoughtfulness and well phrased arguments?

Way to suck the fun out of it Proteus :silly: :whistle:

I haven't had time to reply to everyone today, but im reading everything you all have to say and i am thinking about all of your words. 
 
I want to address this idea first to (hopefully) get it out of the way...

Proteus wrote:  ....and posting this thread in order to further justify it is only digging the hole deeper.

MartaLina wrote: ....i did not really see the need for this thread other than him trying to justify placing that video ...so yeah , he just came back for another whooping? Cuz yeah i dont know , you tell me...

Now Marta is teasing me with whoopings hehe :woohoo: :blush:

Anyway, I promise that I'll be giving as well as i get! :evil:

Proteus: if by "hole" you mean that the people who didnt like me before i posted the video, now dont like me even more than they already didn't like me to begin with, then (much as i wish it werent the case) im pretty sure that was going to happen eventually any way. 
Life is tough, and the crowd is fickle and judgmental.
I say things that people don't like and I say them knowing that people wont like them, so....

The point of this topic is to have a discussion on what it means to "build people up"-- its not about justifying that single video. I'll talk about the video a lot because its what got the topic going to begin with. There are some who think the video was inappropriate for the simple fact that they believe that totjo should not be a place where someone might encounter that sort of content. They think it is damaging and traumatizing and unsafe. I disagree.

And I think theres a conversation worth having in that, but its one that is totally separate from the point of the "international women's day" thread. Certain people get bent way out of shape when threads drift into new territory and this time I figured that I should open a new topic rather than hijack the original.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I choose to not be a hindrance to any one here. If it means me not responding then I take my leave

Well but dont you think it can benefit someone sometimes to just tell them they are wrong? 
Or at the very least to explain what you think "right" is, even if its contradictory of what they might believe? 

There have been times Ive been truly inspired by you, carlos, because youre always positive and supportive. That's honest truth. I read your posts and I remember the life experiences you've referenced; being a combat veteran, growing up poor and in a violent neighborhood, being now a father and a family man. Theres a lot in that which could be useful to others.

But, because you wont just say what you really think and all you ever tell anyone is "sunshine and rainbows" there also been times when I thought that what you were saying was just irrelevant to anything, and little more than a cop-out. The conversation we've had between these threads is an example: I asked what you meant but rather than tell me, you chose to "take your leave" and say that this is because if voice your own opinion it would somehow be a hindrance to someone (presumably me). But then when someone else speaks up and says the things that (I guess) you believe, THEN you come along and tell them how wonderful and wise they are.
I don't understand why you dont just express your own opinion to begin with? So what if its uncomfortable. It seems like you want people to live up to an ideal that youre not wiling to explain.

"Be about the build up"
[OK.
Love to...
HOW?
What does that really mean, to build someone up? Build them up in what way? How do you do it? What do you do it for? What does a built up person look like? What does a non built up person look like?
These are the questions....

Proteus wrote:  
Is this really about protection though? Or is it about productive learning?

Yes, it is definitely about productive learning. But i wouldnt say its about protection exactly - I don't think you can protect people beyond a certain point. I think the best way to protect them is to support them while they encounter a reasonably limited or controlled kind of danger and hardship. In this way, they learn their own resilience and they learn how to protect themselves. Life is out of our control. Even if you could be there for someone 24/7 reality itself is way too complicated and powerful to predict or restrict, and you really cant even protect yourself from it. What you can do is look at it honestly, see what youre up against and what are the consequences of bad decisions (and even just bad luck) and do your best to prepare yourself to face that.

Proteus wrote:  
Is it really a good idea to go about traumatizing people such as minors into PTSD in order to do so? Would that really "teach" them anything?

Were you traumatized? Did you get PTSD from watching the video? I think that the proclamation of PTSD is thrown around WAAY too freely. Ive seen people invoke PTSD because their parents yelled at them when they were little and one day they came home and their cat was dead, and other such (relatively) trivial things. PTSD, real PTSD, is serious and it lasts for years. If youre still having nightmares about this video in two years, then we can talk about PTSD.

And generally, I don't think its appropriate for someone to watch something like that from the safety of their own computer and consider THEMSELF to be a victim; you've still got your head, so you weren't the victim

I do understand that some hypothetical child might come along and see something you wouldn't want them to see. The internet is a lot like traffic in the sense that it allows us to go to all sorts of useful (or stupid) places, but it is also a fundamentally dangerous phenomenon.
Inherent to the phenomenon of traffic is the fact that you can be squished by it. That's also true of the internet.

Yes, there are seven year olds in the world whose parents arent watching out for them and who find their way into the street sometimes, but we still drive to work in the morning and we don't block off both sides of the road. Instead we teach children how to pay attention and not to wander into traffic.

Your last post was very thoughtful, and much of it resonated with me. I consider it the best of the responses on "that side" of the discussion so far, (and all of them were good, you all are givingme a lot to think about) but ive got a bit of structure to how I am responding and that structure means that I have to make some other replies first. I will say this: I assume that totjo was meant to develop people into Jedi, or to help them develop themselves into such. What "Jedi" actually means is something up for grabs, but I'm also assuming that "capable, emotionally resilient human being who is prepared to handle reality" is a part of a definition on which we can all agree.