About THAT video and what it means to "Build Up"

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7 years 2 weeks ago #278094 by
Xiam

I hope you at least had a warning. Some people can't take that kind of thing, and it's also kind of a good Jedi trait to have tact and maybe not impose unwanted stress upon others.


You should read the thread where he posted the video , you will see that he has been told what other Jedi thought of his video , they engaged in discussion and talked about why they did not think it was a good idea and that is exactly what forums are for. Obi then decided to make this thread about it , only to find that our minds have not changed about graphic content :P

So no , i or any other moderater did not have to warn him more than we already did in that thread really , i think my fellow Jedi here are very capable of handling this , and telling me when something is really out of line ..and Obi knows what he is doing but i did not really see the need for this thread other than him trying to justify placing that video ...so yeah , he just came back for another whooping? Cuz yeah i dont know , you tell me...

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7 years 2 weeks ago - 7 years 2 weeks ago #278095 by Zenchi
Obi 1 wrote...

i dont presume to know what anyone else comes to totjo for or to know the full scope of what totjo should be, but i will say that if youre coming here to be protected from the tragedy and the brutality of life then i think youre in the wrong place


You also seem to think that this is a dojo, and you're wrong about that. This is a church and for some reason or another, as long as you've been here, you keep forgetting that. Perhaps it is you, that is in the wrong place...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin
Last edit: 7 years 2 weeks ago by Zenchi.
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278103 by Manu
The only issue I see here is that OB1 did not include a proper warning when displaying graphic content.

If I were to try and prepare my 7-year old daughter for the world, I would not show her that video, but that's because she's 7 and as a parent I am naturally patronising.

I don't feel a need to patronise anyone here.

Different people come here for different things, so whether people flock here for the "Temple" part and escape the world, or the "Jedi" part and become more aware and prepared for it, is entirely up to them.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278105 by Tellahane
I just want to clarify my stance on a few things here.

1. I think Ob1 brought up some great points, I do think there is some good discussions to be had on the stuff he brought into that thread, I'm not saying that things like that should NOT be discussed.

2. I do think there is a time and place for some of that discussion and where it was posted and how it was posted, even with warnings did not meet that criteria.

As far as how we raise our children, everyone does it differently. Some aren't afraid to show them the truths of the world at various ages, those ages can be younger for some, older for others. I'm not here to tell you what that is, or when. I'm not here to say that our minor's are necessarily ready or not. HOWEVER. I do have to respect your individual choices in when they are ready for that kind of content. But we are missing a couple big points about this.

1. Of the minors that are on here, there are some that are likely here without parents knowledge or permission, so we don't and can't guarantee that we know for any given minor at this temple what the parents are willing to let them see or not see.

2. If we wish to respect the individual wishes of that content we CAN NOT just leave it as putting up a NSFW or other disclaimers because they can click through that without understanding what those disclaimers actually mean. So if I wish to respect the choices of various parents and so on then we need to look for the common denominator in what they may want to allow or not allow, and assume its not allowed, and respect that accordingly. As marta has pointed out children raised in different countries/environments are raised very differently. Some over in the Netherlands aren't as sheltered as they typically are over the in the US as an example. But by common denominator to be fair and respectful we should still try and abide by respecting the most sheltered area's.

As far as the real world environment, I've said before we should never be afraid of any knowledge as a Jedi. Minors are still very much students vs Jedi in my personal opinion. That being said if we need to have a place to discuss some of the gruesome atrocities of the world I suggest a private group and lets discuss it. I've subjected myself to seeing some of these things. There are videos out there publicly available I have seen that would make the video ob1 posted look like a childrens cartoon and give you nightmares for months. The reason I've put myself through that is because of being an EMT, and the fact that I can see some of that stuff here in my own town on occasions. I have to be ready to handle that because its a real possibility for me and I don't want to flake out when your life is on the line. That doesn't mean however I need to subject my wife or anyone else to that who won't likely have to be in that situation to that kind of content.

For all the knowledge in the world there is more then what any one individual can handle. So we put trust in others' to handle that knowledge for that. Just like we put trust in doctors to take care of our health, and trust in police to take care of our protection, or trust in scientists and manufacturers to make vehicles safe as they can be, or structures as strong and protected from the environments as possible. We trust our coroners and morticians to process and take care of our dead. We shouldn't be afraid of knowledge but we should also find the wisdom of trusting others who are willing to handle certain knowledge to handle it as well. We can't be a doctor, and an EMT, and a musician, and a basketball teacher, and a computer programmer, and a astronaut, and a physicist, and a financial manager, and a police officer, and a firefighter, and a pilot, and a mcdonalds manager, and a bus driver, and a coroner, and a insurance salesman, and a tai chi instructor, and a garbage truck technician, and a factory floor worker all at the same time. And if we somehow could we probably would not be very good at any of those because we spend so much time doing every one of those things in so many area's. Accumulating knowledge is one thing, but there is more then any one individual can handle.

All that being said, if we want to discuss that kind of stuff, there should be a more private forum or area to do that in, out of respect. It's more of an advanced topic then it is just one that anyone can cover. I'm certainly not afraid to discuss it, heck I still know where to find some of the videos I've mentioned if that is really necessary, but I will never post them in a thread here where someone might see it out of curiosity who can not handle it, there are no disclaimers that can explain some of the stuff out there, I would need to talk to each person I shared that video to in length to understand what they are capable of before sharing it.

And of course there is my big speech reply about awareness in there that also applies as well. Hopefully that clarifies my stance on a few things.
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278106 by Manu

Tellahane wrote: Minors are still very much students vs Jedi in my personal opinion.

I did not realize it was a linear path. In any case, people get better at sports by playing, not studying games only.

That being said if we need to have a place to discuss some of the gruesome atrocities of the world I suggest a private group and lets discuss it.


I do see your point, and think you're request is fair.


The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward

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7 years 2 weeks ago #278107 by ren

Magnus Staar wrote: The only issue I see here is that OB1 did not include a proper warning when displaying graphic content.

If I were to try and prepare my 7-year old daughter for the world, I would not show her that video, but that's because she's 7 and as a parent I am naturally patronising.

I don't feel a need to patronise anyone here.

Different people come here for different things, so whether people flock here for the "Temple" part and escape the world, or the "Jedi" part and become more aware and prepared for it, is entirely up to them.


But you would show this video to your daughter if you were in saudi arabia, before she saw it live in the street. Or alternatively you could cover her up, keep her indoors and only let her out when under the care of someone who can handle this sort of thing? Oh and ban youtube and facebook, etc where those videos get posted too. :whistle:

This video really was about the death penalty. As such sentences are sometimes delivered by us through intermediaries, I think we should be forced to witness what is done in our name/behalf. you don't like it? well maybe you shouldn't do it to people, or pay others to do it for you. Even if you live in an area where such a practice is no longer legal, you are likely guilty of supporting regimes that do because you want slightly cheaper petrol in your car...

Don't want to see ugly things? Don't do them.
If your kids find it upsetting that the state can just decide to kill a citizen, or that you support such states for a little bit of extra green paper in your pocket, then good for them.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278108 by Zenchi

Magnus Staar wrote: Different people come here for different things, so whether people flock here for the "Temple" part and escape the world, or the "Jedi" part and become more aware and prepared for it, is entirely up to them.


Yes, it's entirely up to them, and the TOTJO is still a Church regardless how they view it. It's called respect, but because the TOTJO has a forum connected to it, people seem all to quick to forget this fact, time and time again. It doesn't really matter how you choose to "view" it, it is a church and people should conduct themselves appropriately. It's a tad ridiculous that Jedi constantly need to be reminded of this fact...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278110 by Manu

Zenchi wrote: Yes, it's entirely up to them, and the TOTJO is still a Church regardless how they view it. It's called respect, but because the TOTJO has a forum connected to it, people seem all to quick to forget this fact, time and time again. It doesn't really matter how you choose to "view" it, it is a church and people should conduct themselves appropriately.


I remember the horror of entering a Catholic church as a boy, to witness front and center a tortured man, bloody, beaten and nailed to a cross.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278114 by Zenchi

Magnus Staar wrote:

Zenchi wrote: Yes, it's entirely up to them, and the TOTJO is still a Church regardless how they view it. It's called respect, but because the TOTJO has a forum connected to it, people seem all to quick to forget this fact, time and time again. It doesn't really matter how you choose to "view" it, it is a church and people should conduct themselves appropriately.


I remember the horror of entering a Catholic church as a boy, to witness front and center a tortured man, bloody, beaten and nailed to a cross.


You would expect the same in a Jedi church?

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin
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7 years 2 weeks ago #278121 by ren
I expect a jedi church to be nothing like any other church, and it has been living up to this since day 1. As I recall it was somewhat perfectly acceptable to discuss the merits of nazi ideology at "jedi sanctuary", the ULC ministry totjo got some of its original material from.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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