I don't go a single day without spending time wishing that we had one...(I mean that literally)
But really, what's the point of my wasting time thinking about it? I have much better uses for that time...I have Apprentices to train, clergy to organise, the continued best interests of the site and its members to discuss in Council...
In short, what we have here NOW is what is important. I'm very much for the 'living in the now' approach to Jediism...take things as they come, ride the wave of life, follow the Tao...
We don't have the means to do it. We're not going to have the means to do it any time in the remotely near future.
I didn't say it shouldn't be discussed, but that there isn't much point to the discussion, and that there isn't anything to sum up from the discussions so far. All that they amount to is -
1) Some people say that it would be great to have a Temple.
2) Other people point out that it's not a realistic aim.
Oh, and occasionally a third element comes into play:
3) Once every few months some random new member will enter the discussion and claim that they have the funds and plans to build a Temple and ask for input, shortly before vanishing from the site never to be heard from again.
Not far. People are entitled to the view that it's not necessary, and entitled to share their view. Part of discussion is being allowed to disagree...
Jestor wrote: I would be interested to see, how far those who wish to discuss this, can go without someone saying its not necessary...
Where would the first one be? Who would be responsible for its upkeep and care? What would be the first things to get in to it? What would be its primary purpose?
Of course I would like for it to be somewhere near me… but seeing how most of our regular members seem to be in Europe or the U.S. East coast/Northern states area it would make little sense to start one here at present. But, if I had the opportunity to start one in my area I would want it to be comprised not only of our teachings but of our values. For me, it would be very eco-friendly and modest in design. There would be areas for study, celebration and a dojo. That means that it would be comprised of a main hall, a library (with a few pc’s) and a workout/meditation room. I would want one of our clergy to be able to spend most of their time there… maybe a “live in” and they have a regular job for supplemental income.
There are many things to consider. In another four years I am going to begin the next stage for my retirement. I am purchasing property and building a few small cabins for myself and a few of my friends to go live. I had considered making a large hall we can feast in and have community. Perhaps, I can alter the design of that hall and have it as a TOTJO church. Keep in mind that this stage will not begin for another four years, but once it is done… any TOTJO member will be welcome there.
I know you want one too, I also feel pretty sure you know im not attacking you...
But, in case, "im not attacking you".. lolol....
So you spend time dreaming about a temple? That's not wasted time... That's thinking about the future...
Balance... equal parts: apprentice, council duties, work, AND daydreaming...
As far as how far this could go, I will tell you what I think...
Let's look at a true to life account of the Power of Imagination and an incredible round of golf that an American POW shot after only a week of being released from a 7 year stay at a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp.
Air Force Colonel George Hall was captured and held as a POW during the Vietnam war. Colonel Hall spent 7 years locked in the dark box of a North Vietnamese prison. For those familiar with conditions that POWs were subject to understand that those seven years were grueling years to say the least.
In fact it's a reality than many didn't survive. But rather than let "reality" dominate his mind, Colonel Hall made another choice. He understood the power of the mind as well as the Power of Imagination.
Colonel Hall loved to play golf.
Every day Colonel Hall "checked out" from reality and played a full round of golf in his mind. He set his "reality" aside and let his imagination flow. Each and every day he played a perfect 18 holes of golf in his mind.
One week after his release from the POW camp he entered the Greater New Orleans Open and shot a 76.
It was the BEST round of golf he had EVER shot and he hadn't played for seven years EXCEPT in his imagination!!
The power of thought.....
When this is built, hopefully this site is still working, and people will find these wishful tjoughts....
Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....
"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
This topic will almost certainly happen on our watch though, I think what you said was overly pessimistic. I plan to be on this watch for 60 - 70 years yet... plenty of time
Seriously the most important thing we can do to make a start on this is to build membership. Mention TotJO to your friends and family, maybe post a poster up somewhere etc mention it on other forums
TotJO has a few hundred members which is fantastic! It really is! But think about how much we could do with a few thousand active members? Most of these might well be offline members that attend groups. If you want to start organising 'Temples' then I say start at home... get a regular group going that can discuss stuff
- Rickie The Grey
See, that's a matter of opinion...maybe all my "it's never going to happen" was presented as more of a fact than opinion, but saying it will "almost certainly happen" also comes across like you're presenting a fact...
Akkarin wrote: This topic will almost certainly happen on our watch though, I think what you said was overly pessimistic. I plan to be on this watch for 60 - 70 years yet... plenty of time
We can only speculate (which obviously I generally try not to with all my living in the moment ), but I think I must speculate differently to you, because I don't really see Jediism becoming any bigger than it is now. And I think that within our lifetimes Jediism will all but disappear. In which case, there is no reason why it would 'almost certainly' happen somewhere down the line. My opinion...
Jestor, I know you're not attacking me
jimcode3, don't feel dumb, I wasn't trying to make you feel like that...
But you've hit on perhaps a really good idea. We have very occasional meet-ups...when I met Ren, Akkarin, Aceboizor, AdamH312 and Metsu in September it was majorly awesome...to have regular Jedi meeting groups would be a wonderful thing, and more importantly, possibly a do-able one...
- Jabi Musah
- Topic Author
Most of what you've said is accurate, but what I think people should spend more time discussing rather than should/shouldn't/what's-the-point, is HOW exactly we CAN make this happen.
I was surprised from the start several years ago how negative-nacy Jedi on the forums were about this topic. Jedi are on probably the most difficult path that any human could go down yet they don't apply that mindset (anything is possible if I only put my mind to it) to other things like the comparatively simple task of buying land, building a building on it and using it.
I've heard that "where there's a will, there's a way". And I whole heartedly believe it.
Jestor… I believe the proper response is F- Yea! Imagination workouts have been proven to be effective as well.
Jimcode3, I agree that's important. But I also feel that distance does not need to restrict impact. Someone could be a wiz at architecture in New Zealand and someone in Florida could be great with laws and liability issues, but there might be a good construction wiz living in Kansas who is willing to travel anywhere like to Arizona where someone found some great cheap land. A temple can be built. It simply needs to be planned out IN DETAIL.
People point out difficulties. So lets outline the stuff and go to work solving them one by one.
And please no one receive me wrong. I 100% agree that online Jedi communication is where people are now, and can make more progress along their paths. But to me, it seems that people are using it as a cop-out for not putting effort into an obviously difficult task. And, 'the force is inside us' so let this be the will of the force
And yes, if your not into working on this project, continue in your training unhindered.
Also, please notice that there is a strong probability that people who consider themselves Jedi, but focus on their offline Jediness, are not regularly on forms.
And I, simply put, am on Jedi forms specifically because I see what the Jedi are about, and see the growing interest and "need" for such things in our developing globalizing world. We have a network which can help to be a catalyst for the development that people are wanting, yet do not have an avenue on which to develop it. We can do ALOT. As we are moved to, we should act.
That being said, I have no qualms at all creating a RETREAT CENTER TEMPLE that is in no way officially or technically affiliated with the Jedi name. If people from Jedi forms make it, so mote it be. (wink)
for reals… Peace,
1. A temple would increase membership, especially if the press got wind of it.
2. One of the key purposes for a physical temple is for hands-on training. Things that can't be learned online or by reading.
3. Another key purpose for a physical temple is as a sanctuary. Although there are many definitions of the word sanctuary, I keep seeing posts by people interested in a "retreat"; which is one of those meanings.
4. TOTJO seems to be stuck in a quagmire between what was, what is, and things that have not yet come to pass (regarding a physical temple).
With that pointed out, may I propose the following?
1. Have the Jedi council appoint some members of "the fellowship of the temple" to create a temple if possible. Include representatives from each aspect.
2. Use the principles of co-creation to create a collective vision. An example might be like:
I'm envisioning a temple like a hippie commune but where work is equally distributed so nobody can just bum off the others. The temple inhabitants wisely took advantage of their location in CA near the almond growers and now have a multi-million dollar bee pollination business. 10's of thousands of people come to the temple every year because it is like the 7th wonder of the world and it is so successful that we will be opening another one just like it on the east coast.
3. Make a kickstarter project to raise the funds.
4. Build the temple.
For those with doubts, I would ask you to ask yourself this: Is it the will of the force for us to be happy? Does having a temple make us happy? If so, then it is the will of the force for us to have a temple.
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.