Physical Temples

Jabi Musah wrote: I can't believe I never thought of that! :blush: The server IS a physical temple for our online Jedi collaboration. So, add that to the list of temple types huh? :lol:

Can someone please explain how this site is currently hosting this site? What are all the parts that go into keeping this site up and running?

And can someone please also list what options there are as alternatives to this current method. For example, if we are renting server space and time, what would it cost to purchase our own server and staff it? Would there be any way to collaborate with some (if not all) of the other Jedi sites to see if they want in the purchase and/or usage? Basically creating a non-denominational internet temple for Jedi.

Just an idea. What do you all think?

Peace,
Matt

We have a dedicated server with 100mbps connection, plenty of nuclear power to feed it and cool it, 3.1Ghz core i5, 16gigs ram, 2TB disk. Everything is on this one machine, we don't use NAS or cloud stuff.

So by dedicated, does that mean someone owns it? And what types of costs are associated with it? Does that setup handle traffic of the sight well or does it get pushed at times?

I wanted to make some comments about the retreat center temple.

This one seems like it could be easily put together like a business plan. It would be a business by offering, wait for it..., retreats to the public. They would include a variety of classes like daily yoga, meditation, tai chi and/or other martial arts and physical fitness development. Meals would be provided and the lodging would be simple and conducive to developing inner knowledge. i.e. not a lot of distractions. There could also be one on one sessions with a guidance councilor to help direct their inner searching.

The grounds would have places for quiet natural meditation and lots of trails for walking contemplation and running. Also, since it is a well established place, on site gardens for food including fruit trees can be tended to to help supply the majority, if not all, the food for guests and employees.

The number and type of classes do not need to be limited to what I listed above. Other options could include archery, survival skills or even extra-sensory development like blindfolded meditation or padded walking obstacle course (I'm sure someone can come up with better ideas for this area)

It would also be nice to have a few types of common areas for discussion or games like ping-pong or pool. Even on a developmental retreat, time to defrag is important.

It would also be nice to make a place to swim. Even if it's just a simple concrete three lane lap pool that's unchlorinated but rather cleaned by some other more natural means.

I'm sure others would have some good ideas to add to this.


The main thing I'm getting at is that this could be a "business". And with a well put together business "plan", getting an investor (even if it's a bank) would be relatively easy.

And with that, if we do not have a Jedi specifically to teach Aikido but that's what we want to offer, I'm sure we could hire one to come out there for certain times. Same goes for a licensed psychotherapist if that's what we want to advertise we offer. However on a side note, I don't see why we couldn't interview and select a Jedi with skills in that area to be that guidance councilor.

Some other points that have come to mind... For physical fitness, have a diagnostic fitness test at the beginning of a group coming out there. Then break them up into ability groups and have one instructor per group to work with them. Also, on that note, have specific dates and available openings for people to sign up for. That way we are always working within our means and are prepared with classes for that many durring the course dates. Also with this we can have different types of course, some more focused on meditation, some on martial arts, and possibly offer more 'open' courses that would be similar to an independent study program where they can participate in available classes as they choose. There could also be a Jedi specific work study program where after someone applies and gets accepted, they can come live and help out at the temple while they work on their own development. Both these last two I think should include weekly or biweekly checks with a mentor to make sure they aren't getting too off track and to make the decision, if ever necessary, they should leave.

More class ideas:
- Basic Life Saver (CPR) w/ American Red Cross certification
- First Aid w/ American Red Cross certification
- World religions class
- Interpersonal skills and Diffusing conflicts
- Emergency Self Defense
- Reiki
...

Lastly, at first thought I imagine this place being far enough from a major city to keep people from thinking they can just go back and forth from town in the evenings or weekends. But not be so far away that if they did decide they needed to leave, they aren't stuck so far out in the middle of no where they can't make it back to civilization without chartering a plane.

For a real life example see; www.mro.org and www.odiyan.org

The PRIMARY problem I see here is: insurance. With all the physical activity, the insurance cost (to the individual and / or the Tojo at large) would be high. It's a liability no matter what (this kinda of project or any other involving physical training).

The only other issue is see is: opening it total to the public "commercializes" us, which in turn, will make people not take us as seriously. ("I already thought those Jedi were weird, but now I 'KNOW' they're just for the money!" Can't you hear it in your mind's ear yet?)

I have no good answer to that one.

Rates might be another cost? NPO's can take money for payment of services, it's just it cannot be for profit and must go into service delivery AFAIK (including even paying staff). Otherwise, if we wanted large donations we'd need some serious positive community programs in place as business only donates big money to organizations that help their own public image (usually).

A good start would be to have a moderator merge all the "physical temple" threads into one and have someone summarize it for newcomers.

Several people with moderator/admin powers have posted here and decided to leave it be...

I was tempted to merge it initially, and I don't believe that people should start new threads about something if they know perfectly well that there are already other threads about it, but as it's here now, it might as well stay and serve as a way that people can comment on the subject without having to trawl through hundreds of pages of years old posts.

There's little point summing everything up for newcomers because there's nothing to say. The only way you could sum it up would by saying:

"Some people like to fantasise that we're going to have a real, physical Temple. We're not, and we don't need one. If you wish to partake in the discussion, please don't fall into the trap of thinking that suggestions that you offer will make any difference to that fact".

jimcode3 wrote: [color=#4400bbThe only other issue is see is: opening it total to the public "commercializes" us, which in turn, will make people not take us as seriously. ("I already thought those Jedi were weird, but now I 'KNOW' they're just for the money!" Can't you hear it in your mind's ear yet?)[/color]

Incorrect
http://www.mro.org/zmm/

You can sell stuff and still not be an evil corporation. You can provide services that cost money and not be a destructive cult...

"Some people like to fantasise that we're going to have a real, physical Temple. We're not, and we don't need one. If you wish to partake in the discussion, please don't fall into the trap of thinking that suggestions that you offer will make any difference to that fact".

There's always a chance....

I would be interested to see, how far those who wish to discuss this, can go without someone saying its not necessary...

Talkng can only go so far, and once every nail is planned, every brushstroke is imagined, then, someone has to grab the hammer and nail...

Some of the greatest marvels created by man started out as nothing more than an idea and words on paper. Never say Never, and if per chance someone, or a group of individuals decided to take the next step and start building, where better to get ideas than from the input from members provided here in the form of "positive" feedback...

Lol, you all know I want a physical Temple...

I don't go a single day without spending time wishing that we had one...(I mean that literally)

But really, what's the point of my wasting time thinking about it? I have much better uses for that time...I have Apprentices to train, clergy to organise, the continued best interests of the site and its members to discuss in Council...

In short, what we have here NOW is what is important. I'm very much for the 'living in the now' approach to Jediism...take things as they come, ride the wave of life, follow the Tao...

We don't have the means to do it. We're not going to have the means to do it any time in the remotely near future.

I didn't say it shouldn't be discussed, but that there isn't much point to the discussion, and that there isn't anything to sum up from the discussions so far. All that they amount to is -

1) Some people say that it would be great to have a Temple.

2) Other people point out that it's not a realistic aim.

Oh, and occasionally a third element comes into play:

3) Once every few months some random new member will enter the discussion and claim that they have the funds and plans to build a Temple and ask for input, shortly before vanishing from the site never to be heard from again.

Jestor wrote: I would be interested to see, how far those who wish to discuss this, can go without someone saying its not necessary...

Not far. People are entitled to the view that it's not necessary, and entitled to share their view. Part of discussion is being allowed to disagree...

I have said many times before that I think having a physical temple would be awesome. But there are so many things to consider before seriously venturing down that avenue.

Where would the first one be? Who would be responsible for its upkeep and care? What would be the first things to get in to it? What would be its primary purpose?

Of course I would like for it to be somewhere near me… but seeing how most of our regular members seem to be in Europe or the U.S. East coast/Northern states area it would make little sense to start one here at present. But, if I had the opportunity to start one in my area I would want it to be comprised not only of our teachings but of our values. For me, it would be very eco-friendly and modest in design. There would be areas for study, celebration and a dojo. That means that it would be comprised of a main hall, a library (with a few pc’s) and a workout/meditation room. I would want one of our clergy to be able to spend most of their time there… maybe a “live in” and they have a regular job for supplemental income.

There are many things to consider. In another four years I am going to begin the next stage for my retirement. I am purchasing property and building a few small cabins for myself and a few of my friends to go live. I had considered making a large hall we can feast in and have community. Perhaps, I can alter the design of that hall and have it as a TOTJO church. Keep in mind that this stage will not begin for another four years, but once it is done… any TOTJO member will be welcome there.

lol, ooo, a conversation....

I know you want one too, I also feel pretty sure you know im not attacking you...

But, in case, "im not attacking you".. lolol....

So you spend time dreaming about a temple? That's not wasted time... That's thinking about the future...

Balance... equal parts: apprentice, council duties, work, AND daydreaming...

As far as how far this could go, I will tell you what I think...

www.abundance-and-happiness.com/power-of-imagination.html

Let's look at a true to life account of the Power of Imagination and an incredible round of golf that an American POW shot after only a week of being released from a 7 year stay at a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp.

Air Force Colonel George Hall was captured and held as a POW during the Vietnam war. Colonel Hall spent 7 years locked in the dark box of a North Vietnamese prison. For those familiar with conditions that POWs were subject to understand that those seven years were grueling years to say the least.

In fact it's a reality than many didn't survive. But rather than let "reality" dominate his mind, Colonel Hall made another choice. He understood the power of the mind as well as the Power of Imagination.

Colonel Hall loved to play golf.

Every day Colonel Hall "checked out" from reality and played a full round of golf in his mind. He set his "reality" aside and let his imagination flow. Each and every day he played a perfect 18 holes of golf in his mind.

One week after his release from the POW camp he entered the Greater New Orleans Open and shot a 76.

It was the BEST round of golf he had EVER shot and he hadn't played for seven years EXCEPT in his imagination!!

The power of thought.....

When this is built, hopefully this site is still working, and people will find these wishful tjoughts....

As long as members come to realize that the TOTJO (cake), is what's really important, than there's nothing wrong with discussions centered around a physical Temple (cherry). Although the cherry is nice, it fails to compare to cake. Just the same, I like cherries. I understand if members don't have time for cherries, but please don't shoot others down who may prefer them from time to time....

I think it's been made clear: the topic can die; it's not gonna happen on our watch. Makes me feel kinda dumb for even hoping aloud for the idea. Let's just hope someone will take my "let's find out where everyone lives" idea from yesterday, coordinate by region / city / area, and 5 or 7 Jedis can meet at someone's house every month, trading-off hosting duties. Then, the only expense is: gasoline (petrol) and chips/dip. I'm done.

Getting people's places is actually pretty easy:

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Offline-activities/44353-Jedi-Map

This topic will almost certainly happen on our watch though, I think what you said was overly pessimistic. I plan to be on this watch for 60 - 70 years yet... plenty of time

Seriously the most important thing we can do to make a start on this is to build membership. Mention TotJO to your friends and family, maybe post a poster up somewhere etc mention it on other forums

TotJO has a few hundred members which is fantastic! It really is! But think about how much we could do with a few thousand active members? Most of these might well be offline members that attend groups. If you want to start organising 'Temples' then I say start at home... get a regular group going that can discuss stuff

Stepping stones...

Build membership! Bravo. And work on your training.

Cherries! :laugh: I love it.

Akkarin wrote: This topic will almost certainly happen on our watch though, I think what you said was overly pessimistic. I plan to be on this watch for 60 - 70 years yet... plenty of time

See, that's a matter of opinion...maybe all my "it's never going to happen" was presented as more of a fact than opinion, but saying it will "almost certainly happen" also comes across like you're presenting a fact...

We can only speculate (which obviously I generally try not to with all my living in the moment ), but I think I must speculate differently to you, because I don't really see Jediism becoming any bigger than it is now. And I think that within our lifetimes Jediism will all but disappear. In which case, there is no reason why it would 'almost certainly' happen somewhere down the line. My opinion... :pinch:

Jestor, I know you're not attacking me :laugh:

jimcode3, don't feel dumb, I wasn't trying to make you feel like that...

But you've hit on perhaps a really good idea. We have very occasional meet-ups...when I met Ren, Akkarin, Aceboizor, AdamH312 and Metsu in September it was majorly awesome...to have regular Jedi meeting groups would be a wonderful thing, and more importantly, possibly a do-able one...

V-Tog, you mentioned the here-and-now and how "we don't have the means to do it" but I wanted to point out that the first step in making anything happen is a Plan. And we are all capable of adding our own input into that plan's creation. I for sure do not think that fanaticizing about the idea is health but I think we have all experienced 'phases' where we have a flood of ideas about something or a motivation spurt on a specific topic.

Most of what you've said is accurate, but what I think people should spend more time discussing rather than should/shouldn't/what's-the-point, is HOW exactly we CAN make this happen.

I was surprised from the start several years ago how negative-nacy Jedi on the forums were about this topic. Jedi are on probably the most difficult path that any human could go down yet they don't apply that mindset (anything is possible if I only put my mind to it) to other things like the comparatively simple task of buying land, building a building on it and using it.

I've heard that "where there's a will, there's a way". And I whole heartedly believe it.

Jestor… I believe the proper response is F- Yea! Imagination workouts have been proven to be effective as well.

Jimcode3, I agree that's important. But I also feel that distance does not need to restrict impact. Someone could be a wiz at architecture in New Zealand and someone in Florida could be great with laws and liability issues, but there might be a good construction wiz living in Kansas who is willing to travel anywhere like to Arizona where someone found some great cheap land. A temple can be built. It simply needs to be planned out IN DETAIL.

People point out difficulties. So lets outline the stuff and go to work solving them one by one.


And please no one receive me wrong. I 100% agree that online Jedi communication is where people are now, and can make more progress along their paths. But to me, it seems that people are using it as a cop-out for not putting effort into an obviously difficult task. And, 'the force is inside us' so let this be the will of the force

And yes, if your not into working on this project, continue in your training unhindered.

Also, please notice that there is a strong probability that people who consider themselves Jedi, but focus on their offline Jediness, are not regularly on forms.

And I, simply put, am on Jedi forms specifically because I see what the Jedi are about, and see the growing interest and "need" for such things in our developing globalizing world. We have a network which can help to be a catalyst for the development that people are wanting, yet do not have an avenue on which to develop it. We can do ALOT. As we are moved to, we should act.

That being said, I have no qualms at all creating a RETREAT CENTER TEMPLE that is in no way officially or technically affiliated with the Jedi name. If people from Jedi forms make it, so mote it be. (wink)

for reals… Peace,
Matt

May I point out the following?
1. A temple would increase membership, especially if the press got wind of it.
2. One of the key purposes for a physical temple is for hands-on training. Things that can't be learned online or by reading.
3. Another key purpose for a physical temple is as a sanctuary. Although there are many definitions of the word sanctuary, I keep seeing posts by people interested in a "retreat"; which is one of those meanings.
4. TOTJO seems to be stuck in a quagmire between what was, what is, and things that have not yet come to pass (regarding a physical temple).

With that pointed out, may I propose the following?
1. Have the Jedi council appoint some members of "the fellowship of the temple" to create a temple if possible. Include representatives from each aspect.
2. Use the principles of co-creation to create a collective vision. An example might be like:
I'm envisioning a temple like a hippie commune but where work is equally distributed so nobody can just bum off the others. The temple inhabitants wisely took advantage of their location in CA near the almond growers and now have a multi-million dollar bee pollination business. 10's of thousands of people come to the temple every year because it is like the 7th wonder of the world and it is so successful that we will be opening another one just like it on the east coast.
3. Make a kickstarter project to raise the funds.
4. Build the temple.
5. Enjoy!

For those with doubts, I would ask you to ask yourself this: Is it the will of the force for us to be happy? Does having a temple make us happy? If so, then it is the will of the force for us to have a temple.