So, is Kyrin banned forever, or what?

Twigga wrote: I believe that the temple offers me plenty of skills in conflict management. I don't feel apathetic or inattentive to the learning process here. It provides a great deal of context for me to better understand my offline life, the unending complexities of human interaction, and the community provides a sense of belonging which supports me in the difficult decision making processes needed in pursuing the path of non-violence and acceptance I have chosen.

Perhaps Serenity and Zenchi have surpassed this stage of learning; but I wouldn't want the efforts of those who are putting significant time and care into my growth to feel belittled by these statements. Maybe there are "more advanced" places of learning. Maybe some people's "offlines" contain the excellent quality listeners, friends, mentors, and examples I have discovered here. But this place is a great fit for me right now. So I just want to say thank you to all the people who share their views here. I count Kyrin as one of those people from whom I have learnt a lot. I hope she returns soon.

My comments were not a slight pointed at anyone, so there's absolutely no reason to take them personally or feel "belittled" by them, lol. Nor was I referring to another site, offline means offline, and everyone benefits from time offline. Being connected 24/7 has proven scientifically to be detrimental to ones own mental health...

That being said, the TOTJO should also not be looked upon as a "one stop shopping" source for knowledge, socialization, etc etc...

That's how cults get started, :laugh:

Some great points are being made here, and it is part of a wider ongoing conversation we've been having here for months. How do we balance the free and diverse nature of communication with the desire to have some basic rules of engagement. We can swing too far one way and let everyone say whatever they want to whomever they want and possibly cause damage in the process, or we can go too far toward being cops and try to police everyone's behavior so closely that it becomes suffocating. We still haven't nailed down the balance, and honestly I think it is always shifting based on the current participants and the wider online environment.

And it isn't just here. We're living in a time when paradigms are being challenged and our interactions online and via social media are being treated differently than ever before. We're all adjusting to it, and some of us are failing miserably (Roseanne Barr). It is going to take time and patience to work out just what kind of online place this Temple should be, and our opinions will differ. In order to be successful, we must work together and be willing to compromise.

One of my few regrets over the years I have spent here is that certain people who I consider to be great friends of mine have been victimized by our confusion and indecisiveness when it comes to moderating behavior and resolving conflicts. I've seen many leave because of it, including my own Teaching Master and now my own Apprentice (not by choice). This only motivates me even more to continue working toward a Temple where we can have aggressive and spirited debates about important issues without them involving personal attacks and needless mudslinging. That is the rock I push up the hill everyday.

Thank you for your reply Zenchi. I wish to clarify that I was also not talking about other sites. Some people's offline worlds are very isolating places. I believe that the work put into this place, including the work you do with your own apprentices, has value which is not accessible to all in their offline worlds. There are brilliant people here. I restate my point that this is not to be undervalued, but rather appreciated. I have not spoken at any point of disengaging from the offline world - I quite clearly stated in my comment that it provides me support for achieving my goals in my offline life, and wish to second your opinion that, yes, if TotJO is your single sole source of knowledge and socialisation there are mental health risks - everyone needs "offline" allies too.

The reason I restate my point is that I do see a risk of belittlement. It can make hard working volunteers (including yourself) feel undervalued. I would not want that to occur. As I said before, this may not be a "more advanced" place of learning (which could be your local pub, sangha, or library, and I highly recommend these places as sources of learning); but for some it's the sweet spot; and I am grateful for it.

Twigga wrote: The reason I restate my point is that I do see a risk of belittlement. It can make hard working volunteers (including yourself) feel undervalued. I would not want that to occur.

That certainly has been a problem for people, putting too much stock in what others think. It tends to happen, and is a rather slippery slope that can often result in hurt feelings, over little more than a forum thread no doubt...

Perhaps then they should dedicate more time offline and learn why they're so quick to be offended over mere words, or more to the point, reading into something that was never truly stated to begin with...

People are way too quick to get offended these days, and that often is itself a result of spending too much time online, :silly: :whistle:

The thing is that more advanced learning enviroments often have payed teachers , they get payed by the hour , which is not the case here. Here you rely on volunteers , they do an amazing job , it was never my intend to belittle that.

Learning enviroments with professionals also usually have back up plans for drop outs , misfits and akward bastards etc And my point was that i miss that here , and that is because i have observed the banning of a few members here and their inevitable return and banning again. People are volunteers and maybe dont have the time to cover all of this ...but as i said its just an observation , no offence meant ...

Serenity wrote: The thing is that more advanced learning enviroments often have payed teachers , they get payed by the hour , which is not the case here. Here you rely on volunteers , they do an amazing job , it was never my intend to belittle that.

I guess that plays into the Doctrine here. "It is in giving that we receive" and stuff like that. ;P

Zenchi wrote: People are way too quick to get offended these days, and that often is itself a result of spending too much time online, :silly: :whistle:

I find this quote to be highly offensive. I will be here online all day and night awaiting your apology as if my life depends on it! :side:

Ow and i was not joking about the Dog House construction , like a forum only accesible to the ones that would be banned and a few teaching Masters that can [strike]drill and torture[/strike] lovingly show them the right way , so they can be [strike]kicked into line[/strike] find a more Jedi like way of communicating , i mean there is nothing wrong with challenging people but i think that [strike]flying at peoples jugular[/strike] reacting aggressively or what could be percieved as such is not that recommendable

I kinda get what you're heading towards now Serenity; I think your idea was masked by the metaphor. I found the labelling that the metaphor evoked hard to get around. A person who has not even signed in as a guest, can still see a fair quantity of site content. If you are willing to put forward some more content and threads about the conflict management aspects of Jedi philosophy into that arena, I am sure the council would consider posting it.

There are various free online courses on Conflict Management , very enjoyable too if not done alone , i did a course together about Logical and Critical Thinking with my apprentice and we both learned a lot from it , win=win=win

Here are some that you could have a look at Twigga ,

https://alison.com/course/introduction-to-conflict-management-and-negotiation

my favourite Coursera , very accesible ,very enjoyable

https://www.coursera.org/specializations/conflict-management

and

https://www.fundsforngos.org/free-resources-for-ngos/usips-free-online-certificate-courses-peace-conflict-management/

They are all free courses and for learning purposes very easy to track back to the Jedi codes.

This is a bit of fun aswell , but true non the less

http://www.benstich.com/jedi-training-to-develop-conflict-resolution-strategies/