So, is Kyrin banned forever, or what?

From my understanding, it was due to repeated undesirable behavior in the shoutbox and forums that she had been warned about before. It was a culmination of past actions. As far as I know at this moment, there has been no decision made about how long the ban will last.

The goal of this action was not meant to merely put a spotlight on Kyrin's behavior, but also point out that there are others here who contribute to these issues and instigate fights based on personal issues rather than the ideas being discussed. This isn't going to be tolerated anymore. By using this website, we agree to the Terms of Use and the rules set forth for the forums. If they repeatedly aren't being followed, there is no reason that we should continue to welcome the offender back here.

It has been relatively calm here in the Temple as of late, and my hope is that people have returned to their personal studies and working with others to improve themselves rather than worry about what everyone else is doing. Friendship and social interaction are important components of the Temple, but they do not supersede the goals we have set to be a place of learning.

Since I am but a humble guest, participating in the shoutbox is not possible to me, so forgive me if this question sounds naive.

If the problem is that some users do walk this place for the personalities it hosts more than the... education, let's say (in my six and a half years I barely can recall a day when that was different, but fair enough, things change, I suppose...), then how exactly does that impact the ability of any other user to be here for the teachings?
What kind of shoutbox post can get in the way of anyone's learning?
And how does a suspension of access aid either that user's or anyone else's learning?

Brick wrote:

Serenity wrote: I think this Temple needs some kind of Dog House construction , where people can reflect on their behaviour , attitude and language.

.....So, the Temple then? :laugh:

No , a more advanced learning enviroment where people devote themselves to the learning proces. And teach conflict management ....

Serenity wrote:

Brick wrote:

Serenity wrote: I think this Temple needs some kind of Dog House construction , where people can reflect on their behaviour , attitude and language.

.....So, the Temple then? :laugh:

No , a more advanced learning enviroment where people devote themselves to the learning proces. And teach conflict management ....

Affirmative, it's called life offline...

Serenity wrote: No, a more advanced learning enviroment where people devote themselves to the learning proces. And teach conflict management ....

I was only teasing really.

Though, if a conflict has gotten out of hand, this suggests that both 'sides' failed to manage it. Yet only one 'side' appears to have been banned...

I believe that the temple offers me plenty of skills in conflict management. I don't feel apathetic or inattentive to the learning process here. It provides a great deal of context for me to better understand my offline life, the unending complexities of human interaction, and the community provides a sense of belonging which supports me in the difficult decision making processes needed in pursuing the path of non-violence and acceptance I have chosen.

Perhaps Serenity and Zenchi have surpassed this stage of learning; but I wouldn't want the efforts of those who are putting significant time and care into my growth to feel belittled by these statements. Maybe there are "more advanced" places of learning. Maybe some people's "offlines" contain the excellent quality listeners, friends, mentors, and examples I have discovered here. But this place is a great fit for me right now. So I just want to say thank you to all the people who share their views here. I count Kyrin as one of those people from whom I have learnt a lot. I hope she returns soon.

Brick wrote:

Serenity wrote: No, a more advanced learning enviroment where people devote themselves to the learning proces. And teach conflict management ....

I was only teasing really.

Though, if a conflict has gotten out of hand, this suggests that both 'sides' failed to manage it. Yet only one 'side' appears to have been banned...

That is what i meant , its nothing persoal, just an observation after a few people being banned.

Gisteron wrote: ...How exactly does that impact the ability of any other user to be here for the teachings? What kind of shoutbox post can get in the way of anyone's learning? And how does a suspension of access aid either that user's or anyone else's learning?

It doesn't affect their learning, or anyone else's. But it is a matter of principle. A disruptive student in a classroom is usually kicked out of the classroom (or put on meds, but since the TotJO does not hold that kind of authority...).

So, in answer to all three questions, it doesn't affect anyone that chooses to not let it affect them, but this should be a place of learning, so the kid yelling in the back won't affect those diligently studying, but it does affect the atmosphere of this place.

To clarify, this situation is more along the lines of what Arisaig has described. Some students and even Knights here were hesitant to engage in any conversation that Kyrin was a part of because of a fear of the inevitable confrontation that would come of it. While I don't believe Kyrin was trying to be disruptive, her approach to debating can be intimidating to those with less experience. She also tends to question everything, which I think is great, but others aren't interested in having every opinion or assertion ripped apart.

The banning of Kyrin, in my opinion, is a failure on all sides. She could be better at communicating. Others could be less eager to bait her into fights. Still others could use her style of questioning as an opportunity to learn more about logical fallacies and argument in general. There is value to having her here, and I do hope she can return soon.

As an aside, I do know where Kyrin is currently studying online and I'm happy to share it with anyone interested via PM. She has given me permission to invite anyone looking for her to join her at this other website and I will say that it is definitely worth taking a look if you feel there is value in your interactions with her.

I appreciate the intent behind the classroom analogy, but I don't find that it holds up very well in the given situation.
When a student is disruptive in class, that does actually impede the entire class' progress. Other students are stuck and waiting until the disruption ends, wasting time that is designated for study and that is crucial to their successful completion of the class. The student is not simply removed as a matter of punishment. They are removed so as to restore an environment where their peers can continue learning efficiently under the teachers' supervision. Meanwhile, the suspended student gets additional homework to catch up with the rest of the class they missed due to their removal, because no matter their behaviour, they still need those teachings to pass the class and not just any disruption should be reason to leave school until next year.
Here, however, nobody is being disrupted. Noone is interrupting a class others need to listen to to pass, there is almost no time restrictions or examination dates, passing itself has more or less a sentimental value, rather than a market one (unless the degrees here have by now been accredited and can be considered a testimony of expertise), and none of the teachers make their living teaching here either (unless that, too, has changed by now). Nobody, as far as I can tell, was actually being harmed here any more than they were happy letting themselves be.
This end result may have been about discipline, or even vengeance, for all I know, and I'm frankly comfortable leaving that judgement to others, if one must be made. However, so far I'm not seeing how it could also have been about protecting a learning environment or how said environment was under any threat to begin with.