Philosophy is dead, or, my Jediism is what you need to believe, or else.

Rosalyn J wrote: Are you suggesting people may have already studied Campbell and Watts and the other things we have in the IP?

I did. I came into the Temple after having college courses on Campbell's work.

Proteus wrote:
But how would this deal with the issue of order? If you ran a community and somebody came into the temple and their mission was to frequently and consistently complain that they didn't like how you were running it and pleaded cases of this to the rest of the temple at their every opportunity how would you deal with this? Afterall, there is authority in this case, and that authority technically is you.

Step one, listen
Step two, engage fairly
Step three, change

There must be a reason why this is happening and I am not the only authority in this. Most of the others have just left in frustration because the steps were not followed.

Rosalyn J wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote:
As to my noticing something different, yes I think your right that everyone has their own approach and set of life tools they bring to the training. What I'm trying to get at, and is slowly forming in my mind as we have this discussion, is the wildly varying degree of experience people have here. And the lessons dont always really cater to that well I think. Maybe we need an Advanced Placement program? Or maybe a better Adv IP program? I know that triss was putting some of that stuff out there in the standards thread.

Could you expand a little as to what you mean? Are you suggesting people may have already studied Campbell and Watts and the other things we have in the IP?

Absolutely! I have studied those things extensively. Not watts per say but many other of the greatest philosophers of our time and past times.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote:
As to my noticing something different, yes I think your right that everyone has their own approach and set of life tools they bring to the training. What I'm trying to get at, and is slowly forming in my mind as we have this discussion, is the wildly varying degree of experience people have here. And the lessons dont always really cater to that well I think. Maybe we need an Advanced Placement program? Or maybe a better Adv IP program? I know that triss was putting some of that stuff out there in the standards thread.

Could you expand a little as to what you mean? Are you suggesting people may have already studied Campbell and Watts and the other things we have in the IP?

Absolutely! I have studied those things extensively. Not watts per say but many other of the greatest philosophers of our time and past times.

In those circumstances what could we do?
We could have alternative lessons, but then those lessons might have been done already, and the alternatives to those and those and those. So what are our options in this case?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Proteus wrote:
But how would this deal with the issue of order? If you ran a community and somebody came into the temple and their mission was to frequently and consistently complain that they didn't like how you were running it and pleaded cases of this to the rest of the temple at their every opportunity how would you deal with this? Afterall, there is authority in this case, and that authority technically is you.

Step one, listen
Step two, engage fairly
Step three, change

There must be a reason why this is happening and I am not the only authority in this. Most of the others have just left in frustration because the steps were not followed.

Right, so, if change happened, yet it was change that many more people did not agree with and began to protest, what would happen then? If protest for change happened on a regular basis because there are always people not happy and protesting, how would that affect the community's ability to have order and focus?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote:
As to my noticing something different, yes I think your right that everyone has their own approach and set of life tools they bring to the training. What I'm trying to get at, and is slowly forming in my mind as we have this discussion, is the wildly varying degree of experience people have here. And the lessons dont always really cater to that well I think. Maybe we need an Advanced Placement program? Or maybe a better Adv IP program? I know that triss was putting some of that stuff out there in the standards thread.

Could you expand a little as to what you mean? Are you suggesting people may have already studied Campbell and Watts and the other things we have in the IP?

Absolutely! I have studied those things extensively. Not watts per say but many other of the greatest philosophers of our time and past times.

But there is a large difference between study and understanding, and application, if I had to judge the system as a whole I would say there is generally a lack of application, more to the point, lack of a way to prove application other then interactions here at the forum, of which like all online communities is skewed, with exceptions of maybe private video chats which again, are private, so for those who currently judge if one is worthy of knighthood how can we best see application?

Proteus wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Proteus wrote:
But how would this deal with the issue of order? If you ran a community and somebody came into the temple and their mission was to frequently and consistently complain that they didn't like how you were running it and pleaded cases of this to the rest of the temple at their every opportunity how would you deal with this? Afterall, there is authority in this case, and that authority technically is you.

Step one, listen
Step two, engage fairly
Step three, change

There must be a reason why this is happening and I am not the only authority in this. Most of the others have just left in frustration because the steps were not followed.

Right, so, if change happened, yet it was change that many more people did not agree with and began to protest, what would happen then? If protest for change happened on a regular basis because there are always people not happy and protesting, how would that affect the community's ability to have order and focus?

Use the jediism category for guests as an example, big mess of protest, not one single complaint from an actual guest, and one month later not one single post by a guest in the category. What was actually accomplished in this scenario other? Leaving my theories aside...

Rosalyn J wrote: In those circumstances what could we do?
We could have alternative lessons, but then those lessons might have been done already, and the alternatives to those and those and those. So what are our options in this case?

Well I would double the length of the IP and restructure it with a set of core lessons and then a set of electives the student could choose from to complete a set of requirements. Also I would continue to build on the support structure of the students in study halls and sponsors. All lessons should have clearly lined out points for completion. Another thing that is lacking in the AP as well. The points assigned to a lesson are arbitrary and open to interpretation. There is so much of this process that is hidden from students coming up the ranks. It makes for a confusing journey. One of the reasons I found myself where I was. And I have heard the argument that it is hidden because the council wants students to focus on the journey not the points. I don't happen to agree with that. Its an artificial point of control that is not only not required but its something not in councils control anyway. We are all adults and that sort of control is just not needed.

proteus wrote: Right, so, if change happened, yet it was change that many more people did not agree with and began to protest, what would happen then? If protest for change happened on a regular basis because there are always people not happy and protesting, how would that affect the community's ability to have order and focus?

Well if many more people complain about the change than did before the change then council did not do their job right and the due diligence to gauge the desires of the temple was not completed. If the council deems that change is not required then its their job to reason with the constituents and ensure they know why and address any remaining concerns in a fair and even manner.

Consensus will not always be reached because council is a game of politics just like any other held position. However, in the past, many on the council have treated it like a kingship. You cant know what the people want if you dont engage with the people and have a public presence. As a Knight, proteus, you are a member of the councils staff body. Part of that charge is to engage with the people. I have just now seen you return to the boards so that is good. Thats what is needed, I consider it a necessary requirement of that rank but many are never seen. If every member of the governing body does not have a public presence in some capacity then the membership starts to wonder what conspiracies they are cooking up. It becomes an "us vs them" mentality and that is never good for any organization like this.

This has all been said a thousand times before though and it ebbs and flows. But what I have never understood is why does a person want to be a member of the council or a Knight here if they have no desire to engage with the membership and be a part of the greater community. That has never made sense to me. It seems this is the case with portions of the council and a major portion of the Knights. And a few of the ones that are active seem to want to hold their status over our heads, which was really the original point of this thread.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: And a few of the ones that are active seem to want to hold their status over our heads, which was really the original point of this thread.

It takes two to tango. It seems odd that someone as strongheaded as you would let someone's rank weigh in at all. You are here walking your own path, you don't need anyone to agree with you, do you?

Whenever I disagree with a high-ranker here, I simply ignore them, honestly (you know, if I've come to the conclusion that I won't change their mind).

Then again, you are passionate about the fight itself, so it's understandable you keep butting heads with anyone who is up for a fun game.

Manu wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: And a few of the ones that are active seem to want to hold their status over our heads, which was really the original point of this thread.

It takes two to tango. It seems odd that someone as strongheaded as you would let someone's rank weigh in at all. You are here walking your own path, you don't need anyone to agree with you, do you?

I don't think that's what was meant, but rather a pointing out of the problem. The rank doesn't mean anything, but some people that think so allow that to go to their heads, and makes them (in their own mind) above reproach.