Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:
Rosalyn J wrote: I would still like to know, then
What would a lesson NOT written to please authority look like?
I ask because I genuinely want to know, because I want to mprove as a teacher as well
As one case in point I think there needs to be much more interaction when it comes to the IP. No one is allowed to question or challenge anyone in the journals. Its a sterile environment where the student walks through the motions in a vacuum. Things do seem to be improving in that regard however with the study halls and such so that is a step in the right direction I think.
If you haven't heard it before I would be surprised but often the IP is referred to by knights as the "resume" because its there to "break the ice" so to speak to get a very beginning understanding of a few concepts, but most importantly its there for us to judge and see what your mindset is, your work ethic, and somewhat of your personality. It's not as much an education requirement in that respect, we want to see where you are on some concepts so that we know how we need to work with you better when it comes to apprenticeship. This isn't a quiz with grade answers its more like a "pre test" to see where you are at.
That as you said, the study halls are steps in the right direction, there are IP chats starting to happen in discord now, we have people who have put themselves on a list of reach out to me if you have IP questions, a lot of good stuff going in that direction. I would like to see more apprentices sign up for that portion, because getting used to reading about that is going to be a bigger part of knighthood when they get there.
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: If an extreme is to be had get rid of rank all together and instead just earn and grant degrees. and if that degree is in earning 100 points then that should be the criteria, period. No one gets to go off on their own and change that just because they don't feel in fits a standard. It makes the temple look bad when this happens. It was suggested I leave if I didn't like the version of Jedi this place teaches but that goes both ways as far as I'm concerned. Either conform to this temples standards or go off on your own and create your own temple with your standards that includes 300 points.
The problem with the 100 point system(and majority of those at knight rank and higher have somewhat agreed to this problem), is that if you put it out there in black and white, you end up with people who only want to do the bare minimum, and sometimes, and often most times, the bare minimum does not cover enough of what needs to be covered. The deciding factor of what needs to be covered varies greatly on the apprentice. Some like you have stated before have studied some concepts and things a great deal before even coming here, others haven't studied any of the material at all, let alone have been to a church before or even worse prior to coming here looking. Those are two dramatically different starting points, thus some members will require more then 100 points to get to where "we"(as a temple or council or whatever group you want to throw in there) feel a person is ready for knighthood.
That is the biggest reason I put together a fake 300 point system that sits on the same 100 point system everyone else is using is because I'm not interested in someone who only wants to work the bare minimum, I want someone focused not on the points but on being a better person, I want someone of that mindset, to them points don't mean anything and they should never mean it, the only reason it even exists is to make sure effort is still done for a degree, even if someone has covered all of the material before. The whole degree requirement just causes a lot of confusion and there has been plenty of discussions about that too.
Points is not the goal of knighthood, a better state of being is. I really wish, and again more debate to be had, the a.div was not a true requirement of knighthood. Some people NEED structure, others DO NOT.
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Well if many more people complain about the change than did before the change then council did not do their job right and the due diligence to gauge the desires of the temple was not completed. If the council deems that change is not required then its their job to reason with the constituents and ensure they know why and address any remaining concerns in a fair and even manner.
Preach! Except the moment someone recognizes that from council(from personal experience) and stars arguing why you immediately get accused of "power hunger", "master mentality", "corruption", "Inept", "Lacking" and other fun words until you feel like complete garbage that your own community that you VOLUNTEER so much time into is basically crapping on you for doing the job that needs to be done.
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Consensus will not always be reached because council is a game of politics just like any other held position. However, in the past, many on the council have treated it like a kingship. You cant know what the people want if you dont engage with the people and have a public presence. As a Knight, proteus, you are a member of the councils staff body. Part of that charge is to engage with the people. I have just now seen you return to the boards so that is good. Thats what is needed, I consider it a necessary requirement of that rank but many are never seen. If every member of the governing body does not have a public presence in some capacity then the membership starts to wonder what conspiracies they are cooking up. It becomes an "us vs them" mentality and that is never good for any organization like this.
I know this is mostly towards proteus but I bolded one section and I'm curious for your feedback kyrin, honestly. One of the problems we are seeing as council, is that no matter what decision gets made, and this is common of anywhere, one party/member or another will not get what they want. We can't please everyone 100%, and as a result there will always be the party/member who thinks we are conspiracing up a storm or only out to get them or not here "for the temple" (hear that all the time) etc. Get enough of that and its not hard for those to want to consider just only doing the option that makes the most people happy, which often isn't he best decision for running the temple, when your nothing but people pleasers and not leaders, but the moment your leaders and not people pleasers we get told how terrible we are.
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: This has all been said a thousand times before though and it ebbs and flows. But what I have never understood is why does a person want to be a member of the council or a Knight here if they have no desire to engage with the membership and be a part of the greater community. That has never made sense to me. It seems this is the case with portions of the council and a major portion of the Knights. And a few of the ones that are active seem to want to hold their status over our heads, which was really the original point of this thread.
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Publish processes and procedures of training, be open and honest about what to expect. Have a monthly committee meeting in chat where all council is required to attend and speak to the membership and answer questions. Engage with the people! Council members should be the most prolific posters on this board because they hold the greatest responsibility in the temple. Engage us in chats and debates and just be around in the threads making comments and such. I have developed a growing and personal relationship with Senan because we have chatted regularly on a weekly basis for 2 years. The same goes for people like hatter and atticus. I have developed a relationship and as a result I trust them and I respect them and I give them those things. And when the make desisions that I may not agree with I respect their capacity to have made the best decision because I know what sort of indiviuals they are. I cant say that for other members of the council. I dont know them and I have a perception the are hiding behind their title and as a result I dont trust them. I have never had the opportunity to build a relationship with them through casual interaction. Thats the most important job of a council member and its the one that is the most lacking.
It's not that there is no desire, it's that the workload is THAT MUCH. in the last week alone there have been over 2000 whatsapp chat messages between council including discussions of this thread, problems with users causing personal attacks, discussions about knighthood process, discussions about pax templi, moderation, discussions about ways to improve a handful of things, discussions about B.div process rework, the education admin proposed changes, website tweaks, server backups, A couple of IP's have been read through and reviewed, "graded" in terms of making sure each lesson had an sufficient amount of work done, checked for plagerism and so on, several new membership applications had to be background checked and looked into, approved and processed, a long list of moderation requests from journal edits for people to consolidating/splitting threads, this isn't even the full list of it all. Yes not all these tasks are technically for "council" but "council" is heads of most of these departments so we do have to still do all of these things. On top of that majority of council has their own apprentices to spend time with, and on top of ALL of that, we still have our full time jobs and families, and this is a VOLUNTEER position you get elected into serving. It's not that we have no desire, its that our desire commits us to do all the administrative background things that need to be done to keep this temple as smooth as it is, and no one seems to be able to realize it because its all back end work. We get shit on the regular for how were never around but we easily spend 10-30 hours a week here each plunging the toilets and scrubbing the floors at the to-do list to keep it all caught up, and no so much as a single thank you for it. The council/knights you rarely see are usually the ones working the hardest. Like Adhara, never met her, never talked to her until maybe a knights meeting here and there, but the moment I got into super admin role and saw HOW MUCH work she does, and how much stuff gets done at the temple for everything she does I was in awe. I personally easily spend 30 hours a week working here, I know a few other council who do more then that, but I also have two full time jobs and a family too. Plus apprenticeship whew. You guys just keep demanding more...
So when threads come up and comments come up that we are absent and not here, and are terrible, you can imagine after working as hard as we have, how we feel about that. Yet we are still here, enduring for the sake of membership.
Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: People throw stones at what they dont understand. This is not a failing of the people but of the council. If your engaging is enraging people then I think you are doing something wrong. But of course im not an expert, I have my subjective opinion like anyone else. None of us are politicians and its easy to be an arm chair quarterback. What I do appreciate in this exchange is your willingness to patiently discuss this with me. That is what is needed more than anything. If we could come together and work through issues in this manner it would go a long way to furthering the harmony of the temple I think.
That is no joke, But I don't see it as a one way street of failure its two way, you can do everything you want to spell it out, but if the person isn't willing to read it and just wants to cause waves because thats their personal enjoyment of life, then what do you do?
