Tellahane wrote: At what point in my reply did I say Kyrin I don't want you to be this kind of Jedi? you jump to assumptions and conclusions far too easily. I was merely stating people who decide to choose what doctrine they want to follow or not, what teachings they follow or not, only leads eventually to the problem where they can literally not follow anything related to what jediism is and call themselves jedi, which is not remotely true. Leaving that kind of thinking open allows for that, and thats a bad line of thinking.
Also dicate? really, last i checked you all couldn't agree on a standard, so there is none. Are you my student? nope, your Senan's so I don't get to dictate anything for you kyrin. But I am allowed to have my opinion I do have that right, just like you have yours.
What I want you to take from this experience is exactly what you felt when you wrote this message, because you have turned around and said the same things to many other people here, referring to knights and council and so on as being inept and having no idea what we are doing or the rights etc, how you felt by post is no different then what you have tried to do to others.
So what right do you have, a student, to tell the entire temple they don't know what they are doing, and are unqualified, etc etc...? You are telling me I have no right to tell you, but you are then telling others they have no right to teach what they want to teach? How are you going to teach another student down the road how to be jedi if we cant teach you? What's the point of apprenticeship/knighthood for you if none of that is important?
You have not told me that you dont want me to be your kind of Jedi, you have told me that my kind of Jedi is not a Jedi at all. And you are only telling half the story here. yes, I have challenged the status quo of this place but I have also seen great change over this past year and I have said that as well. I have praised the new council members for a job well done but you seem to just leave that part out. In fact I have seen so many changes here that It reignited my desire to pursue knighthood again and so I have done this. If this is not evidence enough that there are two sides to this story then I dont know what is.
What Im talking about here is your attitude not your ability. You seem to think you have this great wisdom to impart to the unenlightened masses. That your status as a Knight grants you some elite status and to be below that rank is to be automatically in awe of your spiritual prowess. Well this is just not the case. When you are challenged on these views you engage for a bit but quickly resort to belittling comments and then finally just inane and exaggerated retorts. Respect in wisdom is not automatic in this regard, it has to be earned. You have not earned that, at least from me. Your 300 points requirement is enough for me to dismiss your wisdom. You seem to feel you have every card on the table to play but you simply do not. You are not allowing for those you mentor to teach you as well. You are a one way trolly on a two way street.
Akkarin asked for further clarification in this.
The second point this thread was started was over the definition of what a Jedi is and what that can lead to in the future. I have already been told numerous times in this thread and others that if I don’t conform to X views then I can just leave and/or go join another temple somewhere else. This seems to be quite a paradox here.
Is Jediism a syncretic spirituality or is it not? If I can stray so far from what others consider “Jedi” that I am invited to leave the faith altogether how is that syncretic? The evidence in this thread is clear with Ren but as a second case in point this got started with a conversation between Tellahane and I, which I recap below.
So if Jediism has boundaries how can it be syncretic? I say it only makes sense to drop one of the other terms and if syncreticism is dropped then what are those boundaries of Jediism?
Kyrin Wrote:
I think that has been the case starting with the ongoing censorship this place enforces. The rules here are slanted very harshly toward the concept that everyone needs to behave in a manner that maybe not all agree with. Jedi walk individual paths right? Some follow the heros journey and some follow other journeys. If this is a place of syncretic inclusion then why are those that follow other Jedi paths censored?
Tellahane Wrote:
I think...maybe...and I maybe interpreting this wrong, but you seem to think from your point of view that temple of the jedi order is the only order, I mean if someones path doesn't agree with the doctrine here, we don't stop them from finding another order or community that might better fit their path?
If someone goes on a shooting spree at a school and does it in the name of Jedi by somehow linking it in some twisted way do you still agree they are Jedi simply because they say so?
Kyrin Wrote:
Now this is an interesting point. So let me ask you this. If that did happen and the person that perpetrated that act truly believed he was a Jedi in the act of service to his faith do you have the grounds or even the right to tell him he is wrong? If so what gives you that right? Especially since this temple is not the only one around as you say. What if he was a member of a different temple that for some reason condoned such action in specific cases? What if it was not a school shooting but a Muslim jihadist Jedi that decided you need to die because you are an enemy to the true Jedi religion?
Tellahane Wrote:
So its not uncommon for groups of people who draw their own individual lines try and collect with other people who draw their lines in similar area's. This is where you get communities of people. Eventually you end up with a consensus of a line based off a common denominator. When you get enough of those together and build it up enough you get the need to enforce the common denominator because anyone who wants to break it upsets the balance of the group there. This is where villages start, and then cities and then so on. Temples/circles/insert label here for groups of people do the same to some degree.
So do I get to tell him directly he's not Jedi...I suppose I could voice whatever opinion I wanted I'm entitled to it. The temple/organization certaintly can say that based off their line someone is Jedi or not Jedi by their view of the belief yes.
Kyrin Wrote:
Why do you feel justified in proclaiming they are not Jedi? Do you not see this same thing in other denominations? Jewish faith split into Christian and Muslim, Christianity split further into Catholic and protestant. Protestants split into a myriad of other denominations. You know of the bloody conflicts between the christians and the Muslims that continues even to this day right? The Catholics and the protestants in Ireland right? With the attitude you display here how do you expect jediism to end up any differently?
Tellahane Wrote:
It's not my intent to display an "attitude" but to answer your question, what Is Jediism? If its not definable, then its not a thing, it sounds like your making it an all encompassing religious belief that will absorb all other religions but it has boundaries, It's based off the idea of being Jedi, if you don't base it off that then its not Jediism anymore, it's something else would it not be?
I was merely pointing out that water from say the clean glacial mountain water is different then water from say...new jersey...The point wasn't that we are all the same its that we are defined by our containers we are grouped in.
Kyrin Wrote:
Are those containers real?
Yes they are real and you have to deal with them no matter how much you want to wish them away.
Tellahane Wrote:
REALLY where are they at, do you have GPS coordinates so I can contact the local search and rescue group so they don't have to die?
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