Philosophy is dead, or, my Jediism is what you need to believe, or else.

Arisaig wrote:

Manu wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: And a few of the ones that are active seem to want to hold their status over our heads, which was really the original point of this thread.

It takes two to tango. It seems odd that someone as strongheaded as you would let someone's rank weigh in at all. You are here walking your own path, you don't need anyone to agree with you, do you?

I don't think that's what was meant, but rather a pointing out of the problem. The rank doesn't mean anything, but some people that think so allow that to go to their heads, and makes them (in their own mind) above reproach.

Their loss. When you get your head that high up your ass, you ain't gonna see nothin' but shit.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Well if many more people complain about the change than did before the change then council did not do their job right and the due diligence to gauge the desires of the temple was not completed. If the council deems that change is not required then its their job to reason with the constituents and ensure they know why and address any remaining concerns in a fair and even manner.

Consensus will not always be reached because council is a game of politics just like any other held position. However, in the past, many on the council have treated it like a kingship. You cant know what the people want if you dont engage with the people and have a public presence. As a Knight, proteus, you are a member of the councils staff body. Part of that charge is to engage with the people. I have just now seen you return to the boards so that is good. Thats what is needed, I consider it a necessary requirement of that rank but many are never seen. If every member of the governing body does not have a public presence in some capacity then the membership starts to wonder what conspiracies they are cooking up. It becomes an "us vs them" mentality and that is never good for any organization like this.

This has all been said a thousand times before though and it ebbs and flows. But what I have never understood is why does a person want to be a member of the council or a Knight here if they have no desire to engage with the membership and be a part of the greater community. That has never made sense to me. It seems this is the case with portions of the council and a major portion of the Knights. And a few of the ones that are active seem to want to hold their status over our heads, which was really the original point of this thread.

In our scenario, we are assuming that the council is mostly you (maybe about three or four others but you are the main activist of its proceedings). When you try to reason, you have people on either one side throwing stones at you, and when you try to reason with them, people on the other side begin throwing stones. It seems the more you talk and engage, the more you somehow enrage people telling someone something they don't want to hear, or things they just simply do not agree with and state that they will not stand for it. How would you reconcile this? How do you determine which side actually has the most truth behind it? Can you even take a side?

Also, have there ever been times that members of the council have interacted with the rest of them temple and asked members what they wanted or let them even play any role in its change?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ren wrote:

Again, this thread isn't about Kyrin wanting to leave, nor has Kyrin said anything about giving up on this place, but moreso pointing out a problem that needs to be addressed.

What problem? Kyrin has called the views of some 'senior' people here unacceptable, in the first post. Kyrin clearly does not want these people to continue to hold these views. Solution kyrin should suck it up or leave instead of accusing others of what kyrin does. Don't like something? Go. This isn't a cult where others do as you say or no-one can escape. you can go elsewhere find a religion where everyone believes the same and every interaction is about reinforcing these beliefs.

your comments are neither relevant, valid or accurate. If you cant provide something positive to this thread please dont reply at all. You know what they say about keeping your mouth shut and people thinking your stupid vs opening your mouth and confirming the fact.

You mean like when you attempt to insult the councillor who is most supportive of deviants? I usually laugh, what do the others say?

It makes for a confusing journey. One of the reasons I found myself where I was. And I have heard the argument that it is hidden because the council wants students to focus on the journey not the points.

You found yourself where you are because you lack the qualities of a knight. And points are hidden away because a few years back people like you decided they knew better and demanded they be hidden away or chaos(of their making) would ensue. As i recall you shouldn't even have been granted the degree. Either way if you are unhappy about it, you can leave and make your own better system all you want.

Proteus wrote: In our scenario, we are assuming that the council is mostly you (maybe about three or four others but you are the main activist of its proceedings). When you try to reason, you have people on either one side throwing stones at you, and when you try to reason with them, people on the other side begin throwing stones. It seems the more you talk and engage, the more you somehow enrage people telling someone something they don't want to hear, or things they just simply do not agree with and state that they will not stand for it. How would you reconcile this? How do you determine which side actually has the most truth behind it? Can you even take a side?

Also, have there ever been times that members of the council have interacted with the rest of them temple and asked members what they wanted or let them even play any role in its change?

People throw stones at what they dont understand. This is not a failing of the people but of the council. If your engaging is enraging people then I think you are doing something wrong. But of course im not an expert, I have my subjective opinion like anyone else. None of us are politicians and its easy to be an arm chair quarterback. What I do appreciate in this exchange is your willingness to patiently discuss this with me. That is what is needed more than anything. If we could come together and work through issues in this manner it would go a long way to furthering the harmony of the temple I think.

ren wrote: You found yourself where you are because you lack the qualities of a knight.

Arent you going to have egg on your face when I make Knight this year!!

I may frame this quote and put it on my wall.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Proteus wrote: In our scenario, we are assuming that the council is mostly you (maybe about three or four others but you are the main activist of its proceedings). When you try to reason, you have people on either one side throwing stones at you, and when you try to reason with them, people on the other side begin throwing stones. It seems the more you talk and engage, the more you somehow enrage people telling someone something they don't want to hear, or things they just simply do not agree with and state that they will not stand for it. How would you reconcile this? How do you determine which side actually has the most truth behind it? Can you even take a side?

Also, have there ever been times that members of the council have interacted with the rest of them temple and asked members what they wanted or let them even play any role in its change?

People throw stones at what they dont understand. This is not a failing of the people but of the council. If your engaging is enraging people then I think you are doing something wrong. But of course im not an expert, I have my subjective opinion like anyone else. None of us are politicians and its easy to be an arm chair quarterback. What I do appreciate in this exchange is your willingness to patiently discuss this with me. That is what is needed more than anything. If we could come together and work through issues in this manner it would go a long way to furthering the harmony of the temple I think.

Hm, so having said that your not an expert (I doubt any of us really are), is what your on about, then, more your opinion? Are you saying that there is something you don't understand about how council is working? If this is the case, what would be the best way to solve this lack of understanding, and get down to the bottom of what seems to be an issue in your eyes?

Why is it that the two of us are able to communicate like this? Would it be different if I were to confront you in the manner that you've been known to confront the council?

Proteus wrote: Hm, so having said that your not an expert (I doubt any of us really are), is what your on about, then, more your opinion?

Of course its my opinion. I don't mean to imply that I speak for anyone else.

Proteus wrote: Are you saying that there is something you don't understand about how council is working?

UNEQUIVOCALLY YES!! Isn't that exactly what I have been saying?

Proteus wrote: If this is the case, what would be the best way to solve this lack of understanding, and get down to the bottom of what seems to be an issue in your eyes?

Publish processes and procedures of training, be open and honest about what to expect. Have a monthly committee meeting in chat where all council is required to attend and speak to the membership and answer questions. Engage with the people! Council members should be the most prolific posters on this board because they hold the greatest responsibility in the temple. Engage us in chats and debates and just be around in the threads making comments and such. I have developed a growing and personal relationship with Senan because we have chatted regularly on a weekly basis for 2 years. The same goes for people like hatter and atticus. I have developed a relationship and as a result I trust them and I respect them and I give them those things. And when the make desisions that I may not agree with I respect their capacity to have made the best decision because I know what sort of indiviuals they are. I cant say that for other members of the council. I dont know them and I have a perception the are hiding behind their title and as a result I dont trust them. I have never had the opportunity to build a relationship with them through casual interaction. Thats the most important job of a council member and its the one that is the most lacking.

Proteus wrote: Why is it that the two of us are able to communicate like this? Would it be different if I were to confront you in the manner that you've been known to confront the council?

I am a creature of passion. My posts often times come off as quite aggressive. I understand that and as a result I am trying to see things from the other side and redirect that passion in more constructive ways. I have made mistakes in the past, I know. I dont regret those because those are the means for growth, and I want to grow. We are able to communicate like this because you were able to see past that and really listen and communicate in a beneficial way. We each have our own styles but unfortunately this limited medium makes it hard to fully express our intent. To recognize those styles and still be ok with them and not take them personally should be a trait of a jedi no? You display that here and its allowed us to communicate. I hope that I have as well.

We are able to communicate like this because you were able to see past that and really listen and communicate in a beneficial way.

But what was it about all my posts that allowed for this? (can you spot it?)
Also, do you feel that these wonderful points you make only apply to council? Is there anything regarding your issue with the council that could apply to you as well?

I suppose I am getting a lot of mixed messages. I can hear from you we ought to be posting and engaging more and a few weeks ago I heard from another I should be engaging more offline.

How is it that I can reconcile the two?

Rosalyn J wrote: I suppose I am getting a lot of mixed messages. I can hear from you we ought to be posting and engaging more and a few weeks ago I heard from another I should be engaging more offline.

How is it that I can reconcile the two?

Engaging overall is whats needed. This issue arose from someone shutting down a opportunity for engagement.