Philosophy is dead, or, my Jediism is what you need to believe, or else.

As a point of context, there is no such thing as derailing this thread. Anything and everything can be discussed no matter where it leads to.

Athena_Undomiel wrote: I'm still waiting to hear from Kyrin on my response.

Sorry I'm at a wrestling tournament today and have limited access. What was your question or comment you wanted me to respond to?

Athena_Undomiel wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So I have been told by several senior members of this temple tonight, including a Knight and a pastor that philosophy is dead. That when we explore philosophical scenarios that we could possibly equate to real life that this is a completely irrelevant undertaking because these situations and these people do not really exist in real life so there is no benefit in exploring them philosophically. This just flies in the face of most of the greatest philosophers of the last two millennia as far as I am concerned. The arrogance displayed in these dismissals is dumbfounding to me.

So i must ask you, are these the sorts of people you want to learn from, to follow, to be associated with? These people are demanding you conform to their versions of reality and spirituality and dismiss out of hand any alternate versions or opinions to the contrary. They demand the enforcement of their version of reality even to the point of chastising those that question them with comments belittling and dismissing them. I just don't find this acceptable behaviour.

If I may...
from my seat on the sidelines I have watched and witnessed several of these "interactions" to which you refer.
I feel that these conversations you are trying to have, under the guise of philosophy reveal more about your own inner workings than even you may realize.
Philosophy is not dead (you are still able to think for yourself, society has not taken that from us) but the situations and events that you are attempting to discuss are the product of an anxious and worried mind.
Hypotheticals exist in the anxiety inducing quicksand pit that is, what I refer to as, the "What-ifs".
As one with fairly severe anxiety myself, I can completely relate to this land of hypothetical situations. And I too have attempted to rationalize my own fears and worries as a source of my "philosophy" for living. (but are we really?)
Our amygdala (feel free to look it up if you wish) along side our own Ego produces these wildly imaginative, yet seemingly realistic situations in our mind that we occupy our time with under the delusion that "well, IF this does happen, I'll be prepared to deal with it."
This constant barrage of intrusive thoughts and worry only keep you trapped within the well fortified "safety" of your mind. It feels as though our active grasp of the actual fears and things to worry about in our world is a philosophy to live by- if you take a step back, you may find that too much of your time is spent in this "land of hypotheticals".
Look around you, actually around you- look at the NOW, you may be amazed at what is happening beyond the quicksand...and you aren't really trapped there.
What-ifs exist to keep us aware in the need of a fight or flight response---but to try to live in a world where that is primary voice in the mind is not only fearful and anxiety ridden...it's exhausting. (I know, I still get stuck there sometimes).

Please don't give up on the Temple Kyrin, there is a larger following of people who still believe in you here. You and your ideas are as valid as anyone else's here but the Ego, and the amygdala don't like to be told to sit down and allow the mind to think for itself. That is what many of these altercations seems to be (to me anyways).
You come to the table with wonderful questions and then the conversations fall into upset and altercation, not because no one wants to speak with you; not because your ideas are invalid, but because they (we) are trying to help you see beyond the Hypotheticals. See beyond the "What-ifs".
Some lessons can be learned the easy way--some teachers make it seems simple to us; and some are there to push you and make it hard because the lesson itself IS hard to learn--that doesn't mean give up. Be strong as your ideologies prove that you are and spend some more time here.
The temple as a whole only benefits from more and more people with their own ideas. Including yours, but lets try to get beyond the "what-ifs" and the hypothetical situations and actually have some discussion.
I'm sorry that you feel shut down at every turn. I know within my heart of hearts that is not the Temple's goal Kyrin. the Temple does not strive, does not live, to turn others away. If it did then we would be no different than the rest of the "organized religions".
Thank you for your time.

Take your time, if you would like to discuss anything I have brought up I am more than willing to have an open conversation with you. Take Care

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So I have been told by several senior members of this temple tonight, including a Knight and a pastor that philosophy is dead. That when we explore philosophical scenarios that we could possibly equate to real life that this is a completely irrelevant undertaking because these situations and these people do not really exist in real life so there is no benefit in exploring them philosophically. This just flies in the face of most of the greatest philosophers of the last two millennia as far as I am concerned. The arrogance displayed in these dismissals is dumbfounding to me.

So i must ask you, are these the sorts of people you want to learn from, to follow, to be associated with? These people are demanding you conform to their versions of reality and spirituality and dismiss out of hand any alternate versions or opinions to the contrary. They demand the enforcement of their version of reality even to the point of chastising those that question them with comments belittling and dismissing them. I just don't find this acceptable behaviour.

Well I don't think philosophy is dead and find exploring scenarios can give new understanding in life events.
As to your question, I have never personally spoken with anyone who made me feel they were dismissing or belittling in THIS particular way. But then I only tend to speak deeply with a few.
I think you can learn from all and sometimes what we learn may not be what we go into a conversation expecting. I personally dont tend to 'follow so they could demand a certain way of thinking being and I would just think okay, then go my own way.
Its interesting how people are and with so many vastly different people here, with so many opinions about what is and what isn't relevant. I find listening but not necessarily agreeing and finding my own way through easier.

Athena_Undomiel wrote: Please don't give up on the Temple Kyrin, there is a larger following of people who still believe in you here. You and your ideas are as valid as anyone else's here but the Ego, and the amygdala don't like to be told to sit down and allow the mind to think for itself. That is what many of these altercations seems to be (to me anyways).

Again, this thread isn't about Kyrin wanting to leave, nor has Kyrin said anything about giving up on this place, but moreso pointing out a problem that needs to be addressed.

Athena_Undomiel wrote: You come to the table with wonderful questions and then the conversations fall into upset and altercation, not because no one wants to speak with you; not because your ideas are invalid, but because they (we) are trying to help you see beyond the Hypotheticals. See beyond the "What-ifs".
Some lessons can be learned the easy way--some teachers make it seems simple to us; and some are there to push you and make it hard because the lesson itself IS hard to learn--that doesn't mean give up. Be strong as your ideologies prove that you are and spend some more time here.

Okay, but most of us aren't put in situations where a real life example can fit, not do all of us want to pour our heart stories in public forums for the world to see. What-if's are scenarios we can all put ourselves in without having to be too open about problems we may be facing. Personal problems are usually dealt with in PM's and such, away from where anyone with a computer can see. The Parables of the Bible aren't literal stories, they're hypothetical. Speaking in hypotheticals helps test ideas in situations that may not happen, may never happen, or may never have happened... but they still could happen.

I fully understand where you are coming from Arisaig...but with all due respect how do you know that Kyrin and I have not shifted this conversation to a more private platform? Once again I have tried to reach out to Kyrin and keep getting Arisaig. Perhaps some Winnie-the-Pooh efforts are in order....

"We keep trying to find home, but keep finding this pit; so perhaps if we try to find this pit, we might find home." (A.A.Milne)

"That's really weird..." Willy Wonka

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: As a point of context, there is no such thing as derailing this thread. Anything and everything can be discussed no matter where it leads to.

Athena_Undomiel wrote: I'm still waiting to hear from Kyrin on my response.

Sorry I'm at a wrestling tournament today and have limited access. What was your question or comment you wanted me to respond to?

As it seems you simply wished to start this thread to bring some form of chaos here and don't actually wish to discuss anything. I bid you good-day.
Take care Kyrin
May the force be with you.

Athena_Undomiel wrote: I fully understand where you are coming from Arisaig...but with all due respect how do you know that Kyrin and I have not shifted this conversation to a more private platform? Once again I have tried to reach out to Kyrin and keep getting Arisaig. Perhaps some Winnie-the-Pooh efforts are in order....

"We keep trying to find home, but keep finding this pit; so perhaps if we try to find this pit, we might find home." (A.A.Milne)

"That's really weird..." Willy Wonka

You keep getting me because I'm here. You don't like it, don't respond to me. Instead of belittling my statements again, how about you give me half the respect I've afforded you?

I couldn't care if you took it to PM. Because those are private. I go off the information that I have, and nowhere in this thread (or any other thread, because that's how you appear to like to think people respond) does Kyrin show any interest in leaving or giving up on this place.

Is seems odd to talk about someone else who's perfectly capable of answering for themselves. If we're talking about what Kyrin thinks or intends I wouldn't ask Athena I would ask Kyrin.

Akkarin wrote: Is seems odd to talk about someone else who's perfectly capable of answering for themselves. If we're talking about what Kyrin thinks or intends I wouldn't ask Athena I would ask Kyrin.

Whose asking other people what someone thinks? I've seen no such question.

The notion of "Respect" keeps coming up. It has for quite some time struck me as a curiosity just what people mean by that, and how one can actually claim it from someone else. Of course, one can hope for it -- whatever it is.

Do we have a deficit of Respect ? It is an interesting point to ponder ... philosophically even.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Jediism/119300-i-have-always-been-here?start=90#317360