Streen and Silas plotting

Silas Mercury wrote: I'd just like to say that whilst I consider him a friend, I no longer follow Relan Volkum or consider him a Jedi. He is an extremist who uses God as an excuse for his offensiveness and cowardice. Streen and I only refer to the Force as the Father around him because he is pulling the strings of our little faction. The sooner he is dealt with and someone like Streen or Mitth or even Trisskar is put incharge of what's left of the Old Jedi, the sooner we can work towards a better relationship with TotJO and establish ourselves.

You know, the cool thing about the internet, is that you can start YOUR OWN JEDI ORDER FOR FREE! Just open a Wordpress site and let the creative juices flow.

Street wrote: I've been a Jedi since the very beginning of the online Jedi community, roughly 20 years ago. That makes me the only Jedi to have seen it's birth and to still be around.

That's not technically accurate. We happen have someone semi-active in the Jedi Community (though more on Facebook and in the Memphis offline Jedi group) that trained under Kharis Nyteflyer....And while it would be great to put you into the category of someone who has the longest attendance in the community, Opie takes that title from you as well...

Alethea Thompson wrote: Opie takes that title from you as well...

Ummm.......*coughs and strolls off....*

i want to contribute to the "compassion vs honesty" discussion, but that discussion was kicked off by this discussion, and what i have to say requires this discussion's context

i dont want to bring quotes from this conversation into that one, so im responding here

the compassion that i applied to streen was that i read what he had to say with, if not a completely open mind, then at least a mind that was willing to change, and the more i read, the more i saw that i didnt like

I couldn't read all the posts. But I have something to say...

well since he started this whole thing by attacking Jestor, what does it say that he couldnt be bothered to read the replies?
not reading the replies (or saying that he didnt) allows him to avoid whatever valid points may have been raised, so i saw a person who started trouble and then didnt want to read the feedback that his trouble caused

Allow me to apologize for being so presumptuous and egotistical.

this was great; if he could have owned this and meant it then my reply would have been totally different, but he lost me with the very next line

Not to blame Silas, but he kind of lit a fire that got me burning

ok, so first of all, this is how you DONT take responsibility
for anyone who doesnt understand why this "apology" deserves NO compassion, it begins with the fact that its not a genuine apology, its actually a defense in disguise of an apology

having made apologies in the past, i understand feeling the need to explain and defend, and its ok to do that in some cases, but you have to separate the defense from the apology and make the apology stand out clearly

if you actually MEAN the apology, that would happen naturally

secondly, i dont believe this is even true: streen's had this "fire" burning for quite a while and his posts have been "hot" with it for over a year
so he is either lying to himself -in which case im not playing along, considering how the self deception has lashed out at totjo- or he is just lying to us, in which case im DEFINITELY not playing along

and I feel I took actions that were inappropriate and unnecessary.

this is the toughest line in the whole thing; if it werent for the tone of the rest of this post then i might take this line as being an actual apology, but instead i think its just well crafted use of semantics-more on that soon

It's really none of my business who runs this site. As many of you have said, I don't need to be here. My only hope was to help, but it's understandable that most of you don't require it.

more deception (my only hope was to help) - self deception maybe

I can reassure you that Silas and I are NOT plotting. We had one plan, and that was to bring Jestor down a few pegs.

aaaaand that was the nail that sealed his coffin lol
this was the most insulting line in the whole thing and when i read it, that was the end of any chance streen had of receiving any kind of sympathy from me.
that he would even write it out and admit it was insulting lol.
its like smeagol wanting to knock gandalf "down a few pegs"
ok so Jestor may not be GANDALF lol
hes definitely a frodo
AT THE VERY LEAST he's a pippin lol

That obviously didn't work and was inherently the wrong move.

see what he did there?
"the wrong MOVE"
as in "i am moving pieces on the board and this was a tactical error"
when it should have been: "this was wrong because it was unfair and short sighted of me, and really not my place to do it anyway"

and thats essentially my beef with this whole post, and with streen in general: i see him and this whole "apology" as being totally disingenuous, and conniving

he doesnt seem to respect this community and he doesnt seem to care that hes disrespected it, and his attitude isnt going to change

notice how in this whole "apology" he spent a total of three lines "apologizing," two of which he immediately revealed as empty by denying his own personal responsibility or moral error

the rest was basically justifying what he did and advertising his own agenda - i mean he made sure to tell us all -AGAIN- that we are a cult, and that he and his sensei have a great new website, and that hes THE ORIGINAL Jedi and deserves all of our admiration

What we ARE planning, with Relan Volkum's help, is to bring back Jedi Creed, one of the very first Jedi sites.
I think what I've realized through all this is that I simply would like some respect. I've been a Jedi since the very beginning of the online Jedi community, roughly 20 years ago. That makes me the only Jedi to have seen it's birth and to still be around. I'm not bragging, just stating a fact. And before you go ripping me a new one for saying that, I would think that some of you could respect my experience.

That experience tells me that your beloved TOTJO is in danger of skirting the edges of a cult. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. Just be careful. That is my last piece of advice.

i bolded that line because i feel it well exemplifies the disingenuousness of the overall message; he says it as if its some new revelation when in fact its the same thing hes been on about for over almost two years; to be given respect without regard to his current behavior or contributions

to even say it like "what ive realized through all of this" is inherently deceitful, and deceitfulness is a recurring theme within a post thats only about 20 lines

final thought is this:
if someone kicks you, then kicks you a little bit harder, then a little bit harder, then finally kicks you so hard that you turn and yell at them,
then gives you a disingenuous apology which spends three times as much energy on explaining why it was actually ok to kick you, that you kind of needed to be kicked
and you show them "compassion"
guess whats coming next?

i might not have the correct read of all this, and im open to counter points from those who disagree with my analysis

maybe the word "dipshit" wasnt strictly necessary, but it seemed much more appropriate to me than any kind of sympathy or compassion

my compassion is for Jestor and the rest of this community, NOT for the [strike]dipshit[/strike] person who keeps insulting us all

Still on this subject I would like to say a few things. We are in this temple for a personal exploration, not to observe the defect of other people. Yet by saying something first we have to understand the motivations of each one. Things are not as obvious as they seem. Although this is a free community, this does not mean that there is no hierarchy. Jestor is older than half the members of this temple. What I see is the incontinence of younger members, guests, novices, learners, speak less and listen more. Things already worked before you and everyone came to learn and did not exercise any authority. I see in this forum more discussion about nonsense and intrigues than about study, difficulties, projects, etc. This forum is for learning Jedi, if the intention of some is just to discuss why there is nothing better to do, are in the wrong forum

This is not personal to any one ok

Kyber wrote: Still on this subject I would like to say a few things. We are in this temple for a personal exploration, not to observe the defect of other people. Yet by saying something first we have to understand the motivations of each one. Things are not as obvious as they seem. Although this is a free community, this does not mean that there is no hierarchy. Jestor is older than half the members of this temple. What I see is the incontinence of younger members, guests, novices, learners, speak less and listen more. Things already worked before you and everyone came to learn and did not exercise any authority. I see in this forum more discussion about nonsense and intrigues than about study, difficulties, projects, etc. This forum is for learning Jedi, if the intention of some is just to discuss why there is nothing better to do, are in the wrong forum

Still on this subject I would like to say a few things. We are in this temple for a personal exploration, not to observe the defect of other people.

fair enough, i agree, but this is a learning opportunity just like everything else
the real actions of real people offer real lessons, if people are still interested in talking about it, why waste the opportunity to explore those lessons?

Things are not as obvious as they seem.

well then make them obvious; if you know something thats relevant to this discussion but which isnt being said, then say it, please

if youre not willing to explain it then its not really fair to mention it at all

telling us "things are not as obvious as they seem" and wanting to leave it at that is basically saying "i know something that you dont, and if you knew what i knew then you wouldnt talk this way, but either youre not deserving of that information or im simply not willing to divulge it,so what i want you to do is take me on my authority that you shouldnt talk about it anymore"

well i personally am stubborn and irreverent and i dont take people on their authority that i shouldnt talk about things that i want to talk about

i need things explained to me clearly, with as many details and specifics as possible

usually i need them explained several times lol

i see a lot of topics on the forum where people are sincerely exploring ideas and issues about personal growth

this very topic inspired the "compassion vs honesty" thread, which is a good discussion, and plenty of others

so i disagree with your characterization that the forum is "more discussion about nonsense"
and anyway, if you think the discussions are nonsense then all you have to do is get involved with them and contribute ideas which add sense to them

if the intention of some is just to discuss why there is nothing better to do, are in the wrong forum...
This is not personal to any one ok

ok well it looks like youre choosing "compassion" over "honesty" in a way that doesnt really serve either

if you think someone particular is in the wrong forum, then perhaps you should tell that person directly, just like i am speaking directly to you, so that there is no uncertainty about who you mean or what you mean?

if you dont think any particular person is in the wrong forum, then why say such a thing to begin with?
if it isnt anyone in particular, then it isnt anyone at all, and the comment was just unnecessary and vaguely threatening to anyone who might have spoken an opinion

When I said things are not so obvious it was not in the sense that I know something. I mean we often do not like someone else's attitude, as in this case of Jestor, yet whatever he does he has his motives and understanding about it is important first of all. I also think this is an opportunity to learn, what I'm saying is that the lesson here would be to take care of your own studies. These are two newbies who, instead of focusing on learning, are focused on wanting to change things. First we learn how to do and then we perfect. This is the lesson listening vs learning. I did not tell anyone specific because this is for everyone to think about their own life in the forum. I do it myself, every day. You see.

Kyber wrote: When I said things are not so obvious it was not in the sense that I know something. I mean we often do not like someone else's attitude, as in this case of Jestor, yet whatever he does he has his motives and understanding about it is important first of all. I also think this is an opportunity to learn, what I'm saying is that the lesson here would be to take care of your own studies. These are two newbies who, instead of focusing on learning, are focused on wanting to change things. First we learn how to do and then we perfect. This is the lesson listening vs learning. I did not tell anyone specific because this is for everyone to think about their own life in the forum. I do it myself, every day. You see.

i wasnt sure what you meant and so i was vulnerable to making unfair assumptions; thank you for clearing that up

my apologies if i came across as rude

peace!

It is not necessary brother. We just talking. I just want see this post closed and back to our activities. So much people work behind the courtains to make the show happen. Jestor, Wescli, Alexandre, achará, etc. The list don't fit in one post. I'm so grateful for they all. Glad to talk with you brother.

Streen wrote: I've been told that Jestor said if enough members came forward and asked for his resignation, that he would follow suit. - - - The Jedi themselves may not last forever, but if there is openness between Jedi sites, there is no fear of everything falling apart because one site goes down.

This hack of your site has shown how fragile your system is. When Jedi move beyond and between websites, there is safety. TOTJO Jedi can live on.

Every system is fragile because if a system is no longer a system it will no longer work systematic. On that scale of thinking it would always be fragile. :blink: It would not matter to change one system with another system if we consider this?

~