Misogynism

Step four is to see the thing for the whole and to seek the similarities of all instead of the differences. (I have obviously simplified this quite a bit though I think my point is fairly clear. i hope)

the problem with feminism is it sees oppression everywehere in everything, especially if there's a man doing it or enjoying it. Brenna gave examples of how she's been oppressed. same things happened to me and I thought it was all perfectly fine.

I don't understand how it is sexist to make a dongle joke. It's nothing like human resources saying "thank you for your application but women and their tiny brains do not belong in IT". Sure, dongle jokes are cheap humour, but I fail to see how big dongles in tight usb sockets have anything to do with one gender being inferior to another. I fail to see how one guy saying he wants to fork another guys' repo, even if taken as a sexual innuendo, has anything to do with sexism: how exactly does one guy expressing homosexual feelings toward another guy oppress women? Seriously? If cheap humour makes people laugh, good for them. I like happy people, happy people are a good thing. What's bad are people who not only can never be satisfied or enjoy what they have and will go out of their way to ruin someone else's day.


It's not about seeking the similarities, it's about tolerating the differences. There are people who will do things you wouldnt do yourself. There are people who will say things you do not approve of, there are people who have beliefs that contradict yours. Does it matter? Or does your reaction matter? To be a social being is to accept people are different from you and that they are in no way required to live up to your expectations. Feminists are the poster children for anti social personality disorders (especially the covetous type).

ren wrote: the problem with feminism is it sees oppression everywehere in everything, especially if there's a man doing it or enjoying it. Brenna gave examples of how she's been oppressed. same things happened to me and I thought it was all perfectly fine.

Sort of like anti-racism, eh?

ren wrote: It's not about seeking the similarities, it's about tolerating the differences. There are people who will do things you wouldnt do yourself. There are people who will say things you do not approve of, there are people who have beliefs that contradict yours. Does it matter? Or does your reaction matter? To be a social being is to accept people are different from you and that they are in no way required to live up to your expectations. Feminists are the poster children for anti social personality disorders (especially the covetous type).

I agree, its the reaction that really matters.

Rai, my first reaction was actually to say that I'm glad men are taking charge of their options. And right before that I said that the strict gender expectations harm men and women. And I've said many times before that feminism does not seek to advance women above men. It seeks to make femininity a socially acceptable option for everyone, male and female, who wants to embrace feminine aspects of their personality as well as the masculine aspects. Yes, I believe women are more oppressed under the current system because woman=feminine and feminine=bad. But I have also said many times before that feminism will benefit everyone.

Ren, you're still focusing on one case that does not represent feminism as a whole. It was one angry woman who blew things out of proportion and didn't handle the situation correctly at all. And most reasonable people would see that, including most feminists.

ren wrote: It's not about seeking the similarities, it's about tolerating the differences.

My point wasn't that differences should be ignored, it was quite the opposite. I believe that tolerating differences is only one step towards the solution. Instead of simply tolerating we should try to understand. Everyone has their own motivation and reasoning and until those two things are analyzed and understood how can you judge the decisions that they lead to? I understand that there is no such thing as perfect knowledge and that there is always the existence of ignorance but that is why we should strive to understand all that we can and to seek knowledge wherever it may be found. You don't have to agree with everyone, but you should attempt to understand them before passing judgement.

May the Force be with you,
Rai

Abhaya Budhil wrote: I feel that femininity is no less valid or acceptable than masculinity. But my opinion isn't going to change the fact that billions of people I will never meet are still living under an oppressive gender binary that hurts both men and women.

Then, I would say that's really all that matters. How you view either one is how you view them. Nobody's opinion is going to change facts because facts aren't subjective like opinions. I think the most important thing one can do to change something is to stop arguing about it and to educate those who were ignorant about it in the first place. I understand that there are cultures around the world that are oppressive to females, but, maybe they don't want to change. I find it disgusting, but, that's their way of life. I wish I could change things for the better for everyone, but, that will never happen because what makes one happy may make another miserable. Nobody will ever be satisfied, completely.

[retracted]

Most western cultures are still oppressive to women and feminine men, but we fool ourselves into thinking we've eradicated sexism, which allows us to continue on in the way we have been. How am I not educating the ignorant? I post opinions backed up by facts. I post facts backed up by personal experience. Others argue back because they don't agree. Do I just stop there? When you are trying to talk to people who don't agree with you, it easily becomes an argument. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. It's just a style of communication.

Ren, you're still focusing on one case that does not represent feminism as a whole. It was one angry woman who blew things out of proportion and didn't handle the situation correctly at all. And most reasonable people would see that, including most feminists.

She got fired for doing the opposite of her job. he got fired for making a sexist remark. Except he never made one, it's just that a woman didnt like something he did, and because feminism happened he had to be fired. The feminist reaction? "Yet another woman loses her job because she was sexually harassed".

This is far from being an isolated incident, and is why something like this makes top comment on a youtube video asking where have the good men gone:

"What I will be teaching my son:
-never trust a woman, especially not with birth control. If you want a kid, adopt.
-never marry a woman.
-never buy a woman a meal: not only can she pay for it, but she might find it offensive if you pay for her.
-When things get tough, run. If you don't, you may not only get abused, but be accused of assault, rape, or some other shit.
-If unsure about your sexuality, be gay. Even without lube it's still less painful than a heterosexual relationship."

Abhaya Budhil wrote: Most western cultures are still oppressive to women and feminine men, but we fool ourselves into thinking we've eradicated sexism, which allows us to continue on in the way we have been. How am I not educating the ignorant? I post opinions backed up by facts. I post facts backed up by personal experience. Others argue back because they don't agree. Do I just stop there? When you are trying to talk to people who don't agree with you, it easily becomes an argument. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. It's just a style of communication.

What facts?

Where are your sources?

I am not doubting that your statements may well be based in fact, however if you want others to take them as such, you need to provide verification which others can use to ensure that you are not just making your own facts to support your stance. Personal experience is subjective and is subject to the interpretation of both the person who experienced it, and those who are being told of the experience.

Abhaya Budhil wrote: Most western cultures are still oppressive to women and feminine men, but we fool ourselves into thinking we've eradicated sexism, which allows us to continue on in the way we have been. How am I not educating the ignorant? I post opinions backed up by facts. I post facts backed up by personal experience. Others argue back because they don't agree. Do I just stop there? When you are trying to talk to people who don't agree with you, it easily becomes an argument. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. It's just a style of communication.

I don't believe we fool ourselves to think that sexism does not exist. But that we accept that it does. If you watch tv shows it is so obviously there yet we don't complain. Sexism will always exists wherever and whenever we just have to accept it and move on.