Misogynism

Abhaya Budhil wrote: The idea that femininity is less desirable is at the core of our society. Men are told not to cry, to man up, they are made fun of for doing things that are seen as female, they are beaten up for doing things that are seen as too feminine, they are teased for being "whipped" if they submit to their girlfriends and wives in any way even for a few moments, they are ridiculed for doing "women's jobs" such as housework, family care, cooking, etc. And most of this comes from other men picking on them. It doesn't seem like much when it happens once or twice, but when it happens in real life, in the classroom, in the workplace, in acquaintance groups, in the media, it adds up. And it's not healthy for men or women for these attitudes to continue.

The things you mention here are not things that are feminine in nature. Housework is done by nearly all married men living with their spouses and/or children. It is generally shared between men and women based on who can complete the task more efficiently.

Family care.... really? I've never once seen a man ridiculed for taking care of his children. Literally I've never seen it a single time, unless you count women saying that he couldn't possibly be doing a good job because he is a man. I see that all the time.

Cooking used to be something only men could do professionally. It was a very male dominated industry. This is an example of something I've never seen a man ridiculed for, unless his friends make fun of him simply because he is better than them, but that is a different scenario. I've only ever seen a man seriously ridiculed for cooking by a woman, because many women assume that since he is a man all he can do is grill and drink beer.

May the Force be with you,
Rai

The things I listed are not inherently female, but they are viewed as feminine.

Rai, it's actually interesting that you mention cooking as a male dominated industry. Cooking is seen as women's work, but men have more of a chance to make a living at it. Same with fashion. It is still a very male-dominated industry, although it is definitely changing more rapidly than other industries.

Couples do share some housework, but they often fall back on gendered norms. Women do more total hours of housework on average.

When I say family care, I'm talking about stay at home dads. This is often not even seen as an option. A lot of families assume the wife will quit her job to care for the kids even if she is making more money. Even with more and more women working, and even with pay equality evening out, the numbers of stay at home moms vs. stay at home dads are not coming much closer.

Ren, I never denied that feminists focus on women. I only said that this is because women are more oppressed under the current system. Women have further to come to be seen as equals, and they have more to lose if feminism fails. But feminism is about femininity and making femininity and masculinity equal, which benefits men and women. It benefits women more because right now people see feminine things as inherently female, but that doesn't mean men won't also benefit from this.

Where has feminism increased sexism? Women are advancing, feminine men are becoming more acceptable, masculine women are becoming more acceptable, queer people are becoming more acceptable, people are questioning the gender binary, women can vote, women are working more, etc. We still have a long way to go, but we have also come a long way in a very short time.

Women tend to have a problem with men in shared spaces because they fear men. Men are socialized to be more violent, most rapists are men , most pedophiles are men , and patriarchal societies often account for more rapes than integrated societies.

What are those physiological reasons that women aren't interested in math and science fields? There certainly isn't any difference in their ability.

Perhaps the difference in interest is not innate, but it is learned as a result of societal pressures and classroom attitudes. Representation is also important. When kids don't see people like themselves doing certain jobs, they assume people like themselves don't do those jobs. This works for race as well as gender.

Abhaya Budhil wrote: Men are socialized to be more violent,

False. That has little to do with socialization and much to do with elementary study of body chemistry.

most rapists are men , most pedophiles are men

The veracity of the former must, out of necessity, be based solely on reported cases of rape. You yourself said men are pressured not to admit to being the victims of sexual assault. The latter relies heavily on the reported diagnoses of paedophilia (which, it must be remembered, is distinct from ephebophilia and hebephilia, and is also very distinct from child sexual abuse, because the medical/psychological definition of chronophilias do not require sexual contact for a diagnosis), so in order for the set of statistics to be admissible as a generality, it would imply that everyone had access to the level of psychological care that could diagnose them.

Did you actually read the links? Men and women are both pressured not to report rape, so statistics for both genders are skewed some. However, even in cases reported by men, the rapist was more likely to be a male. The other link clearly states that men are more likely to engage in pedophilia and paraphilia. So it's only talking about people who actually act on those urges (the ones who don't act on those urges aren't actually dangerous to anyone).

As far as the socialization of men to be more violent, where is evidence that this is false? Here are quite a few articles about male socialization and why it causes problems that men learn but aren't born with.

Women tend to have a problem with men in shared spaces because they fear men. Men are socialized to be more violent, most rapists are men, most pedophiles are men

White people tend to have a problem with black people in shared spaces because they fear black people. Black people are socialized to be more violent, most rapists are black people, most pedophiles are black people.

That's why white people need special facilities. Adapted prisons. Softer sentences. help to find employment that suits their needs. that's why when wronged by a black person, the white person should get paid.

Oh and when black people worry about white children's behaviour, or when they even just talk about white people, how some of them are prostitutes, or how they dislike certain kinds of white people but like others, they are labelled whitogynists. And if they just keep talking instead of taking administrative measures as they have done with black people in the past for breaking the website rules, the white people's black knight in shining armour shows up.


Case made.

Aaand, this is why the following was published:

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/sermons/2050-the-schism-wrought-by-ism-s

Switching the groups involved doesn't prove your case. My points were backed up with links, statistics, and articles. Your was pulled out of thin air. I could do the same thing with humans and aliens, Or any other made up scenario. It doesn't prove anything.

I invent things? Pretty much everything you've said about men is an invention.

I just took your arguments, replaced "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people". What it did, is transform your incredibly sexist arguments into incredibly racist arguments.

I posted plenty of links to other sources that backed up what I said. And you just made up a world that doesn't exist at all. I was talking about a world that does exist in my experiences, in the experiences of quite a few people I know and have talked to, and according to studies, statistics, and other articles out there.

Abhaya, can you clear something up for me? Is this view of femininity a conscious or unconscious problem? Meaning, is it sort of an automatic reaction people are making that is bad, or are people intentionally thinking these bad things to themselves and calling them good?