Misogynism

I was going to post this in my journal because it is not my intention to start another 24 pages worth of debate, but figured that might not be fair because essentially it is a commentary on some of the behavior I have seen.

I would like to express the fact that I am increasingly uncomfortable with the manner in which the topic of women and feminism is brought up repeatedly. Before posting this I went and re read all of the threads that I am aware of that have encompassed it, and frankly I’m disappointed. To ensure that I wasn’t just being overly sensitive I went though and copied line after line of offensive and sexist comments made by members of all ranks into a word document so that I could read it more carefully. I gave up when I got to 4 pages worth.

As a woman, Yes I am offended and disappointed, though I don’t see any point in rehashing statistics on why feminism is at this point still needed or why women, despite the assertion that we have it better than men, still need to be saying things like I’m about to.

But as a Jedi, I don’t think this is acceptable here. What I have been seeing is a group of very disgruntled men who have been rejected by women and have used the defense that they are “feminists who hate men” as a justification to soothe their hurt. And the fact that it is acceptable here is beyond me.



Jedi believe:
In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin.

In the sanctity of the human person




At what point are either of these beliefs being demonstrated when it’s acceptable for people so say things like:

“Sorry but a little girl who says she wants a career instead of getting married and having kids has had her childhood robbed.”

“I realized all these girls were basically whores.”

“We’ve also reached a point where suicide is the main cause of death in young men. I wonder if being treated like shit all the time has anything to do with it?”

“I'm turned off by women who aren't available... the church lady, the professional woman, the intellectual”

Frankly I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t feel I can even comment in these threads because no matter what I say I know it will be rebutted with some kind of misogynistic crap reminding me that its somehow my genders fault that a group of men can no longer get what they want from women simply because they are men. And the argument that feminism only focuses on women’s issues and that it should be addressing all forms of gender discrimination? Right...

"Despite the overwhelming evidence of entrenched sexual, physical and ideological oppression of women, the only way feminism can really be fair is if it first identifies and solves all of the ways in which the patriarchy also oppresses men.

OR

To be more specific, women who agitate for their own liberation are only allowed to do so once they’ve fixed all the things that make men sad, thus making them stronger and even more powerful."

I’m sure that many (if not all) of the people on this site have had some kind of negative encounter with the opposite sex. Yet I only see one group making broad sweeping generalisations. Both offensively and in a manner that I don’t believe is appropriate here. I haven’t yet seen anyone refer to men as a bunch of selfish cheating bastards who treat women like pieces of meat. Or as disgusting little man boys who believe that women should be sexually available at their beck and call, putting up no resistance to demands, and subservient despite any bad treatment at their hands.

Feminism: the belief that women should have the right to be treated like people, rather than objects available for the amusement of men.





Ps, Bonus material for extra credit
http://noodlemaz.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/confessions-of-a-former-misogynist/

I quite agree with you Brenna.

I've noticed that whenever the topic of women comes up there is inevitably going to be a feminism bashing session (including much sexism) to follow. This strikes me as odd and causes much discomfort.

The reason it doesn't sit right with me isn't because I'm a feminist, it is because I'm a Jedi. As such I believe in the inherent worth of all human beings and that they should all be treated equally and given the same chances. My opinion of you doesn't change simply because you are a woman, or of a different ethnicity than me or because you're different culturally.

I just don't see what gives someone the right to judge others based on what others members of their gender, or ethnicity or even culture have done. I've begun to wonder if I'm the odd man out in thinking that an intelligent, driven, successful woman who isn't just waiting for some man to come along and provide for her is attractive.

It has gotten to the point where I often abandon a thread due to an increasing number of sexist comments that leave me disgruntled. I feel that some people don't realize how much they are generalizing and their opinions are very skewed due to personal issues.

I'd simply like to point out that not all men on this site are misogynists and that I agree that there has been a large amount of sexism. I feel that, while this site should be a place where opinions can be shared freely, there seems to be an increasing number of discriminatory comments from members of ALL ranks and that to me is surprising.

May the Force be with you,
Rai

It is your right to be offended. I apologize if I have contributed, and it was most certainly not my intent. I am no misogynist (indeed, rather more of a philogynist) but am of course influenced by past events and relationships. Some of these have led me to be quite jaded in my assessment of human interactions, with male/female interactions being the chief among these. So frequently future interactions, thought patterns and decisions come under the 'once burned, twice shy' rule.

But as stated above, we are jedi.

Again, I apologize if I offended, and will try to not generalize large groups of people in future.

Des, I appreciate your appology, but its not what I was after.

I simply want the culture (and the personal reasons for it) that keeps presenting itself to be examined. We spend so much time examining our beliefs on the nature of the universe, politics and philosophy, yet we dont stop to examine the ways in which we are continuously perpetuating this issue or why we are so horribly intolerant and judgemental on a day to day basis.

It is not what I would consider a Jedi attitude, and when I read through what we supposedly stand for, I dont believe its a culture that should be acceptable.

Brenna wrote: We spend so much time examining our beliefs on the nature of the universe, politics and philosophy, yet we dont stop to examine....

Threadjack:

Fill in the blank. Personally, I would like to see more topics than just the aforementioned discussed here, both in training and informally.

/threadjack

I feel that there is one problem with this thread and others like it.

The people that need to see it and participate in it most are the people who will avoid it and not comment.

Hopefully them simply reading what others post here will be enough to fire up their brains but there is no guarantee (or even likelihood) of that happening unfortunately.

May the Force be with you,
Rai

~ Robert Burns

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An' foolish notion
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us
An' ev'n Devotion

This translates as

Oh, that God would give us the very smallest of gifts
To be able to see ourselves as others see us
It would save us from many mistakes
and foolish thoughts
We would change the way we look and gesture
and to how and what we apply our time and attention.

I totally agree that ther has been a lot of talk about feminism and i am indeed offended by a lot of what has been stated. But in the end someones thoughts are there own and there usually are reasons behind them. So either they will read what is said and be changed or they will read what is said and reject it. But i also believe that just making this post will continue the arguement since people disagree. So in the end we must all agree to disagree.

Brenna,
I'm sorry you feel there is misogyny here. I, personally, don't hate women or girls. I have, however, been subjected to misandry throughout my life in Western cultures. Whenever I turn on the TV there's some woman talking about how men are dogs, denigrating men, etc. I frequently hear women talk about men as if they're second-class citizens, have lower intelligence, are insensitive, etc... and it hurts. Then to perpetuate the stereotype you have redneck jokes and comedians that add to the list.

:threadjack
I also feel there is materialism here and it turns me away from many threads. I'd like to see the IP include some basics of economics so that Jedis don't run around repeating capitalist propaganda.
/threadjack

I'm not looking to advocate misogynism. However, if I look at the threadjacks in conjunction with the above subject matter, at least in terms of what we would/wouldn't rather hear, or discuss, well, I mean, for those that would like to see a subject matter discussed...that's on you to be the change you want to see.

For those things you don't like or would rather not discuss, perhaps it's best you not comment in those threads or learn to appreciate the diversity of opinions and interests here.

In regards to misogyny... Well, I think perhaps it isn't an intentional thing. We've all had different experiences and encounters and that will color ones responses and opinions and isn't that part of what makes this place and others like it great?

The chances are, you will statistically see something that offends you. However that, in many ways should be put under just as strong a microscope as those who have the opinions that caused offense no?