Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

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09 Mar 2014 04:37 #140797 by Zephyrus
Forgive me if I don't agree.

The need for a physical temple is an illusion of our limited minds. We "feel" something, a connection, to a physical place. But, in reality, proximity is nothing compared to the Force. The Living Force will guide us to a site when the time comes. Please, I implore you to be patient.

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite

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09 Mar 2014 04:52 #140800 by Br. John
Who's going to the annual US Jedi gathering this year? How about the one in Europe?

Founder of The Order
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09 Mar 2014 04:56 #140802 by Zephyrus
Ironically, I'll be in Europe when the US one is going on. And, I'll be in the USA when the European one goes on! Otherwise, I'd make both. hahah.

Next year, in 2015, we'll have it in Colorado with Jackie and the IJRS people hosting. :D:D:D So, get ready for that!

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite
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09 Mar 2014 05:03 #140804 by Archon
Connor, please keep me up to date on the Colorado gathering. I will be able to make it if I haven't used all my vacation on something else.

Thanks!

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09 Mar 2014 05:08 #140805 by Zephyrus
Rest assured, I will make the rounds as the time comes. And, Kitsu will as well.

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09 Mar 2014 07:44 - 09 Mar 2014 07:49 #140817 by Whyte Horse
First of all I wanted to point out that the year is infact 2557 or 2014 or 1435, depending upon one's geographic location. Secondly, if you want to create unity you could make a pact between members, like... guard a temple, and then put a time capsule in the temple. The time capsule would be opened in the future some time, like... 50 years, and anybody can put stuff in there if they contribute to the temple in some way. This gives you the following scenario:
1. A physical temple with significant value both spiritually and personally.
2. An activity which creates unity.
3. An activity which has "a future" in it for everyone.
4. Something which is "genuine".
5. Something which a large group can "invest", or put something into.
6. Something worthy(what could be more valuable than sending a message to yourself in the future?).

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
Last edit: 09 Mar 2014 07:49 by Whyte Horse.
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09 Mar 2014 18:24 #140870 by ren
From a certain point of view, John's kitchen is a physical totjo temple :P It even has a tradition of bringing food as sacrifice to the fridge. :silly:

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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09 Mar 2014 18:33 #140871 by Drexid
Replied by Drexid on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project
Tell me what Prerequisites are required before such a plan can start. People often don't go to meets because what do they gain from doing so? If your meet directly affects TOTJO you are very motivated to go,but if it doesn't its a matter of money and time.

All I have suggested is that we get some opinions and ideas rolling.

Remember my idea of a temple is not something used as a daily or weekly sermon house. It's a meet up spot as well as a location for official ceremonies. Over time It can develop into whatever it needs to but for now its not ready for that.

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09 Mar 2014 18:58 #140874 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Drexid wrote: Tell me what Prerequisites are required before such a plan can start. People often don't go to meets because what do they gain from doing so? If your meet directly affects TOTJO you are very motivated to go,but if it doesn't its a matter of money and time.

All I have suggested is that we get some opinions and ideas rolling.

Remember my idea of a temple is not something used as a daily or weekly sermon house. It's a meet up spot as well as a location for official ceremonies. Over time It can develop into whatever it needs to but for now its not ready for that.


Aside from these already mentioned:
Transport
Sanitation
Electricity
Water
Planning restrictions
Surrounding use for the land
Future use of surrounding land
Variable weather conditions

I can also think of these:
Space required per person
Food required per person
Water required per person
Noise pollution
Air pollution
Local crime
Waste disposal
How much can be recycled and how much we can bring in
Building materials
Internet connectivity
Insurance
Taxation
Heating - Gas/petrol?

Lets go into something like 'building materials:
Walls
Ceilings
Floors
Insulation
Plumbing
Wiring
Fire Safety - including plans for emergency exits (which vary in amount depending on number of people)
Room size
Whether living space is shared
Shared bathrooms or en-suite?
Whether vehicles such as trucks and cranes can access the site
Disability access
Hard-of-hearing (T-Loop)
Security
Underfloor heating

Want me to go on?

You can't just 'begin building', if you are designing a house properly you have already decided exactly where you are going to place everything in your kitchen. You would know where your microwave and toaster go etc.

Make a plan if you want, but there's a reason people go to architects lol - and that costs money.

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09 Mar 2014 19:15 - 09 Mar 2014 19:21 #140879 by steamboat28
I've had the opportunity to talk to a boatload of people here about what they'd want in a physical TOTJO "space." Temple, monastery, library, gardens, etc. Everyone I've talked to has different (but eerily similar) ideas. Everyone I've talked to that thinks it's a good idea also agrees it's a pipe dream for now, because the logistics of maintaining it would be a blow to the sanity.

So, while I agree that I'd love to see a physical presence, I'll also put forth that these things have to happen first, before it can ever become a reality:
  • We need a larger membership. At least in any area we're looking to put a physical location. I don't have the exact numbers on Temple membership, but I know that people float in here and out of here like moths through an open window, and I've only counted twenty-something training masters scattered across the globe, all of whom have real lives in addition to what they do online here. That combination of a poor "stick-around" rate and being spread across the world like butter over too much bread isn't really conducive to building a physical presence anywhere in the world.
  • We need more routinely active members. Some people are on every day posting in the forums in the "soft" topics (like the music threads or the humor board), building connections within the community, but not really doing much else. I'm guilty of this myself. It's an easy way to feel like you're a part of the community without having to actually further the aims of the community through any kind of hard work or time investiture. I did this for a couple of years while I piddled in the IP. I'm not saying everyone who isn't doing stuff is a slacker, but I know that I was pretty intentional about it, and to me, that's lazy. And lazy churches don't get **** done.
  • We need a central location. If we put one of these in the US, this will be kind of a big issue, since it's not a tiny country. Even in a place like Texas, that seems "central-ish" if you look at the member map from a certain angle, would mark it as a spot for a pilgrimage, not any kind of routine devotion. While there is good land there (and the Order was founded there, if I recall correctly), and it's beautiful country, I wouldn't choose TX as the first location because you're basically gonna see the same few faces over and over. If you were to put it in Europe, where the countries are both smaller and more dense than some US states and territories, it would make more sense for an initial location, because most of the European members could trek to a place like that with a pretty short travel time, if they took a mind to.
  • We'd need caretakers. Tying in with the above, you'd need an administration staff anywhere you put something like this. Ideally, it would be presided over by a Bishop/Master, possessing at least one other Knight and one other member of the ordained clergy, a notary public (or the equivalent in the country it's in), an archivist/librarian/historian or some combination thereof, and a custodial/groundskeeping staff of the appropriate size. Most likely, a separate treasurer would be warranted, as well, to ensure that whatever income the physical location had was divided as the Council saw fit between its upkeep and the upkeep of the digital presence of TotJO.
  • We'd need equipment. This would be a perfect chance to build a literal library (solving some of the problems we have currently with the online version), as well as testing out an in-person, live training regimen for the IP/apprenticeship/seminary studies. Which would require computers, copies of the books/films/audio used in these, etc.
  • We'd need accommodations.
  • If you've got anybody there that's working long hours, or has to stay there 24/7, or comes to visit, you'll need a place for them to stay. That means, at the very least, cots or air mattresses in a private area of the building, and ideally a couple of full bunks with a kitchenette and shower facility.
  • We'd need a building. While this may seem obvious since we've talked about putting all these things in it, it cannot be overlooked as a large expense. There are ways to throw something like this together inexpensively, but many of those would come into conflict with some local regulations if not handled appropriately. Even if land is donated, unless we wanted a Jedi tent city, we'd have to have some kind of structure to house these things, and structures are not cheap.

There are more considerations, but honestly the two most difficult things to do to get this idea off the ground are:
  • We have to be able to afford it.
  • We have to be able to agree on it.

The only way past those two is if someone buys land themselves (out of pocket), build/buys a structure for it (out of pocket), and then donates the whole shebang to the Temple while still assuming maintenance costs until donations increase.

I think, if we're talking about sheer legitimacy, that's not nearly as important a use of "extra" TOTJO funds (which have never existed yet) than charity work, so any fundraisers should go there, first.


**EDIT**
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
Last edit: 09 Mar 2014 19:21 by steamboat28.
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