Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Forgive me if I don't agree.

The need for a physical temple is an illusion of our limited minds. We "feel" something, a connection, to a physical place. But, in reality, proximity is nothing compared to the Force. The Living Force will guide us to a site when the time comes. Please, I implore you to be patient.

Who's going to the annual US Jedi gathering this year? How about the one in Europe?

Ironically, I'll be in Europe when the US one is going on. And, I'll be in the USA when the European one goes on! Otherwise, I'd make both. hahah.

Next year, in 2015, we'll have it in Colorado with Jackie and the IJRS people hosting. :D:D So, get ready for that!

Connor, please keep me up to date on the Colorado gathering. I will be able to make it if I haven't used all my vacation on something else.

Thanks!

Rest assured, I will make the rounds as the time comes. And, Kitsu will as well.

First of all I wanted to point out that the year is infact 2557 or 2014 or 1435, depending upon one's geographic location. Secondly, if you want to create unity you could make a pact between members, like... guard a temple, and then put a time capsule in the temple. The time capsule would be opened in the future some time, like... 50 years, and anybody can put stuff in there if they contribute to the temple in some way. This gives you the following scenario:
1. A physical temple with significant value both spiritually and personally.
2. An activity which creates unity.
3. An activity which has "a future" in it for everyone.
4. Something which is "genuine".
5. Something which a large group can "invest", or put something into.
6. Something worthy(what could be more valuable than sending a message to yourself in the future?).

From a certain point of view, John's kitchen is a physical totjo temple It even has a tradition of bringing food as sacrifice to the fridge. :silly:

Tell me what Prerequisites are required before such a plan can start. People often don't go to meets because what do they gain from doing so? If your meet directly affects TOTJO you are very motivated to go,but if it doesn't its a matter of money and time.

All I have suggested is that we get some opinions and ideas rolling.

Remember my idea of a temple is not something used as a daily or weekly sermon house. It's a meet up spot as well as a location for official ceremonies. Over time It can develop into whatever it needs to but for now its not ready for that.

Drexid wrote: Tell me what Prerequisites are required before such a plan can start. People often don't go to meets because what do they gain from doing so? If your meet directly affects TOTJO you are very motivated to go,but if it doesn't its a matter of money and time.

All I have suggested is that we get some opinions and ideas rolling.

Remember my idea of a temple is not something used as a daily or weekly sermon house. It's a meet up spot as well as a location for official ceremonies. Over time It can develop into whatever it needs to but for now its not ready for that.

Aside from these already mentioned:
Transport
Sanitation
Electricity
Water
Planning restrictions
Surrounding use for the land
Future use of surrounding land
Variable weather conditions

I can also think of these:
Space required per person
Food required per person
Water required per person
Noise pollution
Air pollution
Local crime
Waste disposal
How much can be recycled and how much we can bring in
Building materials
Internet connectivity
Insurance
Taxation
Heating - Gas/petrol?

Lets go into something like 'building materials:
Walls
Ceilings
Floors
Insulation
Plumbing
Wiring
Fire Safety - including plans for emergency exits (which vary in amount depending on number of people)
Room size
Whether living space is shared
Shared bathrooms or en-suite?
Whether vehicles such as trucks and cranes can access the site
Disability access
Hard-of-hearing (T-Loop)
Security
Underfloor heating

Want me to go on?

You can't just 'begin building', if you are designing a house properly you have already decided exactly where you are going to place everything in your kitchen. You would know where your microwave and toaster go etc.

Make a plan if you want, but there's a reason people go to architects lol - and that costs money.

I've had the opportunity to talk to a boatload of people here about what they'd want in a physical TOTJO "space." Temple, monastery, library, gardens, etc. Everyone I've talked to has different (but eerily similar) ideas. Everyone I've talked to that thinks it's a good idea also agrees it's a pipe dream for now, because the logistics of maintaining it would be a blow to the sanity.

So, while I agree that I'd love to see a physical presence, I'll also put forth that these things have to happen first, before it can ever become a reality:

• We need a larger membership. At least in any area we're looking to put a physical location. I don't have the exact numbers on Temple membership, but I know that people float in here and out of here like moths through an open window, and I've only counted twenty-something training masters scattered across the globe, all of whom have real lives in addition to what they do online here. That combination of a poor "stick-around" rate and being spread across the world like butter over too much bread isn't really conducive to building a physical presence anywhere in the world.
• We need more routinely active members. Some people are on every day posting in the forums in the "soft" topics (like the music threads or the humor board), building connections within the community, but not really doing much else. I'm guilty of this myself. It's an easy way to feel like you're a part of the community without having to actually further the aims of the community through any kind of hard work or time investiture. I did this for a couple of years while I piddled in the IP. I'm not saying everyone who isn't doing stuff is a slacker, but I know that I was pretty intentional about it, and to me, that's lazy. And lazy churches don't get **** done.
• We need a central location. If we put one of these in the US, this will be kind of a big issue, since it's not a tiny country. Even in a place like Texas, that seems "central-ish" if you look at the member map from a certain angle, would mark it as a spot for a pilgrimage, not any kind of routine devotion. While there is good land there (and the Order was founded there, if I recall correctly), and it's beautiful country, I wouldn't choose TX as the first location because you're basically gonna see the same few faces over and over. If you were to put it in Europe, where the countries are both smaller and more dense than some US states and territories, it would make more sense for an initial location, because most of the European members could trek to a place like that with a pretty short travel time, if they took a mind to.
• We'd need caretakers. Tying in with the above, you'd need an administration staff anywhere you put something like this. Ideally, it would be presided over by a Bishop/Master, possessing at least one other Knight and one other member of the ordained clergy, a notary public (or the equivalent in the country it's in), an archivist/librarian/historian or some combination thereof, and a custodial/groundskeeping staff of the appropriate size. Most likely, a separate treasurer would be warranted, as well, to ensure that whatever income the physical location had was divided as the Council saw fit between its upkeep and the upkeep of the digital presence of TotJO.
• We'd need equipment. This would be a perfect chance to build a literal library (solving some of the problems we have currently with the online version), as well as testing out an in-person, live training regimen for the IP/apprenticeship/seminary studies. Which would require computers, copies of the books/films/audio used in these, etc.
• We'd need accommodations.
If you've got anybody there that's working long hours, or has to stay there 24/7, or comes to visit, you'll need a place for them to stay. That means, at the very least, cots or air mattresses in a private area of the building, and ideally a couple of full bunks with a kitchenette and shower facility.

• We'd need a building. While this may seem obvious since we've talked about putting all these things in it, it cannot be overlooked as a large expense. There are ways to throw something like this together inexpensively, but many of those would come into conflict with some local regulations if not handled appropriately. Even if land is donated, unless we wanted a Jedi tent city, we'd have to have some kind of structure to house these things, and structures are not cheap.

There are more considerations, but honestly the two most difficult things to do to get this idea off the ground are:

• We have to be able to afford it.
• We have to be able to agree on it.

The only way past those two is if someone buys land themselves (out of pocket), build/buys a structure for it (out of pocket), and then donates the whole shebang to the Temple while still assuming maintenance costs until donations increase.

I think, if we're talking about sheer legitimacy, that's not nearly as important a use of "extra" TOTJO funds (which have never existed yet) than charity work, so any fundraisers should go there, first.


**EDIT**

I wasn't trying to say this would be where people live or stay. I meant it would have a little patio area, some special type areas and some vegetation and other totjo related things.

People would meet there in early morning then go to a hotel in the area. I agree a real housing temple would be very hard to implement. Restrooms seem like the only utility a temple would need in my opinion.

The land in this area is near desert. No one cares about noise pollution(there is only few houses in the area and fewer cattle farms), you can see the stars like no other place near a city. In fact its not far from McDonald observatory as well as big bend nation park.

The weather is no big deal, the rain is weak and never snow. In summer it's hot, in winter it's very good. Water would be brought in, but that would be up to the person.

The building materials would be up to the people.

Now insurance I am unsure of. I don't think insurance is needed on something of such little value but Idk. Legalzoom is a website that would help us out there.
Tax is $440 a year. (estimate)

Drexid wrote: I wasn't trying to say this would be where people live or stay. I meant it would have a little patio area, some special type areas and some vegetation and other totjo related things.

People would meet there in early morning then go to a hotel in the area. I agree a real housing temple would be very hard to implement. Restrooms seem like the only utility a temple would need in my opinion.

The land in this area is near desert. No one cares about noise pollution(there is only few houses in the area and fewer cattle farms), you can see the stars like no other place near a city. In fact its not far from McDonald observatory as well as big bend nation park.

The weather is no big deal, the rain is weak and never snow. In summer it's hot, in winter it's very good. Water would be brought in, but that would be up to the person.

The building materials would be up to the people.

Now insurance I am unsure of. I don't think insurance is needed on something of such little value but Idk. Legalzoom is a website that would help us out there.
Tax is $440 a year. (estimate)

But the problem is that we can either go through doing all of this, or we can just meet up in a park...

I'm a huge fan of having a Temple, I've always been interested in being someone charged with the long-term running of one (living there permanently) etc. I don't see a 'never ever ever' attitude amongst the Jedi I see discussing this, it is just totally unfeasible at the moment.

If someone wanted to contribute to the project then I would suggest actually getting a full architectural and costed plan done. As a member of the Council I would never endorse something like this if we never had a complete plan. If we have a plan then we have a guide-mark to aim for and an idea of what land would need to be bought. Even if we had the money that day it probably wouldn't be built immediately, because we would need the membership too.

But a plan (and as I said an architectural and costed plan - not just a 'I have this cool idea' plan) would be the very first thing - unless you know a pre-built site already available.

Well what type of building does it need to be? It would have to be solar powered since there is little electricity lines out there. That would be priced at $1,000 if commercially done, but we are a community for a reason. We could build it for only $200. Honestly, a simple building is not as hard as it seems. That is assuming it is very limited in function.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/earthen-homes-zm0z12aszmat.aspx
How personal can our temple be if we didn't design or build ourselves?

All I am asking for is a well thought out plan and discussion. Only Once a plan is well developed can we truly wait for the time to come.

“Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago.”
― Warren Buffett

I agree with Akkarin. The will is there but the resources may not be. I bet you could count on a few people volunteering to aid in construction and maybe 1 or 2 people as live-in care-takers. These volunteers and caretakers will need food, water, shelter, etc.

On the other hand, you don't really need to increase membership. My mom goes to a local church that has like 8 people at any given sermon. It's just a converted house and everything was donated. Many people come for the social aspect. It doesn't cost much to run and the costs are crowd-funded by the members. They have classes, seminars, retreats, etc.

A few "outside the box" suggestions might include:
1. Schoolie: convert a school bus into a mobile temple
2. Tiny Temple: Put a tiny temple on a trailer
3. Tree temple: treehouse temple

As far as a detailed plan, there are lots of plans available for tiny homes and schoolies. My friend is building a tiny home and he got the trailer for free by tearing down a condemned trailer house. He'll probably spend about $10k when all is said and done. Schoolies cost about the same.

The cool thing about a mobile temple is you can bring it to the meet-ups and do time-sharing parking between different collections of Jedis in different regions. Take it to a media frenzy, get on the news, spread the word about Jediism, etc. If it works out then maybe there would be an increase in members and more than one temple would be needed, etc. Eventually it could just be parked permanently where the most Jedis go.

Another cool idea is to build a floating portable temple like a catamaran. Then you could sail it over to UK, etc, but it costs a lot to build one. I always wanted to build one and sail the world so I highly recommend this idea .

A floating portable temple would be cool if there weren't so many restrictions in air space. Its impossible tho.

I think its just speculation that only a few people would aid in construction. Everyone could help plan the construction while other people willing enough to visit would be able to go there and build it.

Lets get an actual number of people who are willing to go there and build it.
I am willing to. So count me.

People don't realize that you can get free building wood from shops if they are a little off size. You can also build with part of the land as well.

If I still lived in Texas, I would help. But, I'm in Indiana and I'll be (probably) moving to Colorado in a few years, where I'll be building IJRS's temple with the Faculty of that site.

Whyte Horse wrote: 3. Tree temple: treehouse temple

Hey, I could help with that one. I'm kinda Wookiee-ish.

to be realistic, most likely need to be in a touristic area, than in the middle of nowhere.
obviously more expensive to acquire but easy to reach, and make a profit from it.
BUT again, is that right?

Now i am in south america, and hopefully I am going back home this year (South Beach)
Weather is great. lot of people from around the world.... extremely expensive...
it is possible to make money if you have something like a small hotel/hostal

but what is the porpoise of it?
I do like the idea, just because the idea itself, when my trip start (to south america) i was thinking to live here, for long, long time. and building one was not as difficult than in other countries. but looks like i coming back to US.

You need a real income, to have a real temple. is not a one time found rise
you need minimum to pay bills and one person to stay there.

and the only way I can think that works, is making the temple, a way to make money, and that MAYBE doesn't look right.
so the best option is to use it, as a hostel for jedi visiting, or for curious
for thaat you need, infrastructure, lot of permissions, and lot of money
can be done.... YES
if we found someone willing to give away a property with some characteristics, or a LOT of money.
and make that temple make his own money to survive.
Possible yes, but in a better location.
obviously if is me, I say south beach, or Manhattan .... ha ha ha,
if someone can donate a couple of millions, i can make this happen....

i don;t see a real temple in any time soon. without money.

steamboat28 wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: 3. Tree temple: treehouse temple

Hey, I could help with that one. I'm kinda Wookiee-ish.

Couldn't be in Texas then... Texas doesn't HAVE Trees

666 wrote: and the only way I can think that works, is making the temple, a way to make money, and that MAYBE doesn't look right.

Why not? it's what every other organized religion does.