Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

I know there have been a few topics regarding this idea, but many of those are either outdated or just kind of unrealistic. This post is mainly to propose a realistic temple for official totjo things only. This does not propose a site for all or even most operations to occur. This place would be where people participate in official ceremonies or official meet ups or other activities according to the council. It could even be the location of any official paperwork and what not. This would not be a temple of active participation (E.G. a weekly live sermon.) at least in its initial start.

This topic is not entirely made to discuss the official uses of this Temple, it is mainly to discuss the feasibility of this project to become a reality. Texas has the cheapest land and is the location at which TOTJO is an officially recognized church so this is why the first temple would be in Texas.

The significance of this idea is that many people do not take TOTJO seriously due to our purely online presence. They regard us as a forum rather than a church. This is often one of the most significant factors in people joining Jediism. With completion of this project, more membership will be here to help us bloom. You can also guarantee we will be on some news website or station. We will gain a mass of attention for atleast a short amount of time. This means before all plans go through, we should have a spot clean set up of the website and learning paths.

Finances


We currently have $174.94 in our Paypal account (17th Jan 2014).
We currently have $210.68 in our bank account (17th Jan 2014).

According to finances there is around $400. If we had a highly motivated fundraiser for this project we could potentially raise the funds for land in Texas.

Land for Sale in Texas:
Two competitively priced properties in texas at dirt cheap:
http://www.landwatch.com/Brewster-County-Texas-Farms-and-Ranches-for-sale/pid/289064861
This property is located in brewster county. $1,295 for 5 Acres. I have been in the area of this land in the summer time (2013) and it looks exactly like this picture. The Yearly estimated property tax would be about $440 a year according to their calculator. Link

http://www.landwatch.com/Brewster-County-Texas-Land-for-sale/pid/204929266
This property is priced at $2,300 for 10 acres. That comes out to only $230 per acre. This land is similar to that of the other property discussed.

This cheap of land is common in west texas because its hard to make money off cattle with this grass. They will sell their land because the taxes cause them to be wasting money.

The Temple itself is something I will not propose. I will leave that up to the community to make. Perhaps it could be in the shape of the logo or even made in a natural way. The cost of building a structure has so many variables I am unable to discuss. What is the purpose the temple serves, what symbolic ideas should it represent, what budget is available, What is the time frame it should serve as a temple?

Fundraiser:
If TOTJO did all of the planning and work required to get this ball rolling, it would be very feasible for this to be a reality in say one or two years. A Two year fundraising goal of $2,000 could truly make this a reality and I know I would donate to the cause. I am curious of what the council thinks of this idea. There will come a time when this project must be addressed and I personally think the planning stage is right now.

I believe that we should have a real temple and this isn't because the movie jedi had one but there would finally be a place for all jedi to come to and share their knowledge. But i do not really agree that this should be a place only for official things. Of corse ceremonies as kinghting someone are to be done here but i think it should be open to all jedi.

You're right. This topic does come up every now and again. Last time this came up, I very rudely and coldly shut the person down. And, quickly, others followed suit.

I don't wish to do the same to you. In this case, I'd ask you to really think about why a "temple" is necessary at THIS stage. Meditate on it.

I don't necessarily think it needs to be at this stage, but I understand that at some point there will be a time, so why not prepare for that time now? This post is an attempt to be as realistic as possible, and I do agree right now, we simply couldn't do it.

I can see both sides of why we are and why we are not ready at this stage. One reason against is that we are miniature in size. One reason for is that a lack of a physical temple could be the limiting factor on our size. Just being curious what sort of reasons against do you have connor?

JL13000: The day for that is lonngg away.

Besides the practical limitations of building a temple, the planning and organising etc, we don't actually need one. What would we use it for? Other than just having a Temple?

Sure we can use it to host Jedi gatherings, that might actually be a great way of using it, and we can use it to maybe hold training sessions etc or as a spiritual retreat for members of the public and other Jedi etc, hosting teaching seminars and so on. Those sorts of things are probably a great use of the land.

That being said we only have $400 in our bank account so we aren't even close to be able to afford this sort of thing. A fundraiser would also have to be justified and we would need a full plan in place for that.

The fastest way to encourage us to begin building a temple would either be a larger influx of donations or a donation of viable land itself. Not just 'land' either, you have to take into account such things as transport, sanitation, electricity, water, planning restrictions, the surrounding use for the land, future use of surrounding land, and not to mention variable weather conditions to make living there actually enjoyable etc.

Akkarin covered most of the reasons I would have listed.

I think that Jedi could use our own sacred ground, for sure. But, for now, while we are still in our formative years, let us connect in spirit so strongly that the land just happens. Things will fall into place when they are supposed to.

There are many things fighting against the idea, and what happens I'd it sounds like we are hanging up....

Take your proposal of west Texas, who is going to man it? Move there to maintain it?

It can't just sit empty, with the keys 3-4 hours away...

The progression will most likely be:

We will grow more dense, then we will have get togethers in parks, halls, and homes more and more frequently...

Then we will seek a existing building to rent, SOMEDAY, we will get there, but not soon, and this isxwhy the thoughts die...

At this juncture, owning land, even if given to us, where we have any kind of expense like the taxes, is difficult...

We still are not able to support the website on donations...

Its a long rroad, and there needs to be a progression...

We can't jump from learning to crawl to flying to the moon without the progressive growth...

As far as I see it, any kind of physical facility like this is typically only necessary and needed under the condition that there are a certain amount of population in the local area who all need it for official business purposes, whatever that may be.

If you can find several dozen+ people all in one town who have the time and money and official need for it, then that's where it would start. Otherwise, and until then, the presence of TOTJO is and will remain quite acceptably ubiquitous. As long as the scenario in the above paragraph is not currently the case, I don't personally see any necessity for an official location. Are we like a strictly defined corporation or are we a natural, global presence secure enough about ourselves to not have to need an official location to "represent us"? Are we a static business or are we an inspirational idea? Should we have our own single location(s) or should we appreciate any and every location in which we already preside? Just some questions that I ask myself when these kinds of threads appear.

As far as a place for things like processing paperwork go, if you'd like to consider that, then you could say Br. John's house is the "official office" of the church.

Akkarin wrote: What would we use it for? Other than just having a Temple?

We could put our weeed in there.


Isn't land in TX cheap because it's a drought, it's hot, there's no water, fracking is everywhere, etc?

But I believe the intiation of a physical temple would cause more members.
Consider the factors that influence whether someone is to join TOTJO:
Is this idea genuine?
Is there a large enough group of people invested into it?
Is expending my time towards this worth it?

The last factor is something that is just as important as the rest. You need to provide people with a sense of structure or a sense of reliability. That's what religion is about. Without something set in stone that will last through time people will be averse to it. We need a real sense of unity.

I do not think it is ready yet, but in a year or two this idea needs to get serious. And at that point if you are upset that there is a temple in texas and not your area, eventually we will reach to you. Be patient.

Forgive me if I don't agree.

The need for a physical temple is an illusion of our limited minds. We "feel" something, a connection, to a physical place. But, in reality, proximity is nothing compared to the Force. The Living Force will guide us to a site when the time comes. Please, I implore you to be patient.

Who's going to the annual US Jedi gathering this year? How about the one in Europe?

Ironically, I'll be in Europe when the US one is going on. And, I'll be in the USA when the European one goes on! Otherwise, I'd make both. hahah.

Next year, in 2015, we'll have it in Colorado with Jackie and the IJRS people hosting. :D:D So, get ready for that!

Connor, please keep me up to date on the Colorado gathering. I will be able to make it if I haven't used all my vacation on something else.

Thanks!

Rest assured, I will make the rounds as the time comes. And, Kitsu will as well.

First of all I wanted to point out that the year is infact 2557 or 2014 or 1435, depending upon one's geographic location. Secondly, if you want to create unity you could make a pact between members, like... guard a temple, and then put a time capsule in the temple. The time capsule would be opened in the future some time, like... 50 years, and anybody can put stuff in there if they contribute to the temple in some way. This gives you the following scenario:
1. A physical temple with significant value both spiritually and personally.
2. An activity which creates unity.
3. An activity which has "a future" in it for everyone.
4. Something which is "genuine".
5. Something which a large group can "invest", or put something into.
6. Something worthy(what could be more valuable than sending a message to yourself in the future?).

From a certain point of view, John's kitchen is a physical totjo temple It even has a tradition of bringing food as sacrifice to the fridge. :silly:

Tell me what Prerequisites are required before such a plan can start. People often don't go to meets because what do they gain from doing so? If your meet directly affects TOTJO you are very motivated to go,but if it doesn't its a matter of money and time.

All I have suggested is that we get some opinions and ideas rolling.

Remember my idea of a temple is not something used as a daily or weekly sermon house. It's a meet up spot as well as a location for official ceremonies. Over time It can develop into whatever it needs to but for now its not ready for that.

Drexid wrote: Tell me what Prerequisites are required before such a plan can start. People often don't go to meets because what do they gain from doing so? If your meet directly affects TOTJO you are very motivated to go,but if it doesn't its a matter of money and time.

All I have suggested is that we get some opinions and ideas rolling.

Remember my idea of a temple is not something used as a daily or weekly sermon house. It's a meet up spot as well as a location for official ceremonies. Over time It can develop into whatever it needs to but for now its not ready for that.

Aside from these already mentioned:
Transport
Sanitation
Electricity
Water
Planning restrictions
Surrounding use for the land
Future use of surrounding land
Variable weather conditions

I can also think of these:
Space required per person
Food required per person
Water required per person
Noise pollution
Air pollution
Local crime
Waste disposal
How much can be recycled and how much we can bring in
Building materials
Internet connectivity
Insurance
Taxation
Heating - Gas/petrol?

Lets go into something like 'building materials:
Walls
Ceilings
Floors
Insulation
Plumbing
Wiring
Fire Safety - including plans for emergency exits (which vary in amount depending on number of people)
Room size
Whether living space is shared
Shared bathrooms or en-suite?
Whether vehicles such as trucks and cranes can access the site
Disability access
Hard-of-hearing (T-Loop)
Security
Underfloor heating

Want me to go on?

You can't just 'begin building', if you are designing a house properly you have already decided exactly where you are going to place everything in your kitchen. You would know where your microwave and toaster go etc.

Make a plan if you want, but there's a reason people go to architects lol - and that costs money.

I've had the opportunity to talk to a boatload of people here about what they'd want in a physical TOTJO "space." Temple, monastery, library, gardens, etc. Everyone I've talked to has different (but eerily similar) ideas. Everyone I've talked to that thinks it's a good idea also agrees it's a pipe dream for now, because the logistics of maintaining it would be a blow to the sanity.

So, while I agree that I'd love to see a physical presence, I'll also put forth that these things have to happen first, before it can ever become a reality:

• We need a larger membership. At least in any area we're looking to put a physical location. I don't have the exact numbers on Temple membership, but I know that people float in here and out of here like moths through an open window, and I've only counted twenty-something training masters scattered across the globe, all of whom have real lives in addition to what they do online here. That combination of a poor "stick-around" rate and being spread across the world like butter over too much bread isn't really conducive to building a physical presence anywhere in the world.
• We need more routinely active members. Some people are on every day posting in the forums in the "soft" topics (like the music threads or the humor board), building connections within the community, but not really doing much else. I'm guilty of this myself. It's an easy way to feel like you're a part of the community without having to actually further the aims of the community through any kind of hard work or time investiture. I did this for a couple of years while I piddled in the IP. I'm not saying everyone who isn't doing stuff is a slacker, but I know that I was pretty intentional about it, and to me, that's lazy. And lazy churches don't get **** done.
• We need a central location. If we put one of these in the US, this will be kind of a big issue, since it's not a tiny country. Even in a place like Texas, that seems "central-ish" if you look at the member map from a certain angle, would mark it as a spot for a pilgrimage, not any kind of routine devotion. While there is good land there (and the Order was founded there, if I recall correctly), and it's beautiful country, I wouldn't choose TX as the first location because you're basically gonna see the same few faces over and over. If you were to put it in Europe, where the countries are both smaller and more dense than some US states and territories, it would make more sense for an initial location, because most of the European members could trek to a place like that with a pretty short travel time, if they took a mind to.
• We'd need caretakers. Tying in with the above, you'd need an administration staff anywhere you put something like this. Ideally, it would be presided over by a Bishop/Master, possessing at least one other Knight and one other member of the ordained clergy, a notary public (or the equivalent in the country it's in), an archivist/librarian/historian or some combination thereof, and a custodial/groundskeeping staff of the appropriate size. Most likely, a separate treasurer would be warranted, as well, to ensure that whatever income the physical location had was divided as the Council saw fit between its upkeep and the upkeep of the digital presence of TotJO.
• We'd need equipment. This would be a perfect chance to build a literal library (solving some of the problems we have currently with the online version), as well as testing out an in-person, live training regimen for the IP/apprenticeship/seminary studies. Which would require computers, copies of the books/films/audio used in these, etc.
• We'd need accommodations.
If you've got anybody there that's working long hours, or has to stay there 24/7, or comes to visit, you'll need a place for them to stay. That means, at the very least, cots or air mattresses in a private area of the building, and ideally a couple of full bunks with a kitchenette and shower facility.

• We'd need a building. While this may seem obvious since we've talked about putting all these things in it, it cannot be overlooked as a large expense. There are ways to throw something like this together inexpensively, but many of those would come into conflict with some local regulations if not handled appropriately. Even if land is donated, unless we wanted a Jedi tent city, we'd have to have some kind of structure to house these things, and structures are not cheap.

There are more considerations, but honestly the two most difficult things to do to get this idea off the ground are:

• We have to be able to afford it.
• We have to be able to agree on it.

The only way past those two is if someone buys land themselves (out of pocket), build/buys a structure for it (out of pocket), and then donates the whole shebang to the Temple while still assuming maintenance costs until donations increase.

I think, if we're talking about sheer legitimacy, that's not nearly as important a use of "extra" TOTJO funds (which have never existed yet) than charity work, so any fundraisers should go there, first.


**EDIT**