A hidden history about humanity, dimensions and spirituality

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5 years 4 months ago #330203 by Gisteron
I possess no power to "not let the forum be used for its intended purpose". Nothing about what kind of discussion is supposed to occur her is stated either in the FAQ or the description of the subforum. If discussion of substance is unwelcome here, maybe that should be made more explicit somewhere. As it stands, the only rule regulating what content can be posted in what subforum pertains to links only, which, in my case, does not apply, since I did not post any. The FAQ also only lists "Abrahamic, Eastern, Pagan, Science, and Philosophy" as the currently existing SIGs, all of which have dedicated sections as of the time of my writing this post. "Faiths" is not currently itself an SIG.

As I pointed out in my last response, the only reason this is coming up is that Yabu wants to only read some particular types of responses, and not others. He seems to be seeking for that in almost any somewhat interesting thread he makes, though, so I have come to the not entirely unreasonable impression that the reason this thread is posted here rather than elsewhere is not at all related to the nature of the topic itself, especially seeing how the same topic(s) has/have been brought up several times in recent weeks elsewhere on the site.
Yabu is, at any rate, and as much as anyone and everyone else, free to read or to not read any responses posted, and to engage with any or none of them, at his own discretion. My posting here infringes on noone else's nor must I bear any responsibility over whether someone is disturbed by it if I can have no reasonable expectation of the disturbance under the assumption that I'm talking to people I am to respect as equals. I have violated no regulation either by the letter or the spirit, and shown far less disrespect than I received, but if I am unwelcome here in spite of all of that, do feel free to lock me out for now, and consider in future to make access to the SIG subforum opt-in only.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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5 years 4 months ago #330205 by Rosalyn J
The SIG's encompass:

Faith
Philosophy
Science

The OP does not, unfortunately, direct the conversation with any sort of real preamble, thefore, people are unaware of how to engage with it. They engage with it however they see fit unless provided direction.

The OP contains a two hour video. If anyone has the attention span to consider it, they should at least be allowed to engage with its thesis'

If I believe in faith healing and I post a video of Benny Hinn healing people with no guiding questions, where most of my sources are anecdotal or not peer reviewed, of course it will be debated.

I understand faith healing has not been proven by science, but if I ask, has anyone ever had experiences with faith healing? Healed someone? Been healed themselves? How did it work for you?

Its a little different. It may still be debated. I'm not trying to prove the existance of faith healing. I'm asking for anecdotes.

Its no guarantee. But it might work. /shrug

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5 years 4 months ago #330206 by

JLSpinner wrote: Agreed, lets keep the debunking out of the faith section. This is a space for people to explore spiritual matters. Something, of which, is the focus of a majority of our members.


I could not disagree with this statement more. Gist pretty much summed it up well and he is right, this is not a SIG and what Mr Turtle has posted here is not something I would even consider faith. He sure did not phrase it that way nor did he clarify his intention, even after he was directly asked to. I would say this thread needs moved if anything. Posting a 2 hour video of Sasquatch coming out of the 10th dimension and teaching dingos to eat babies is not a faith.

I see no reason to try and sensor responses in this forum just because a single individual does not like some of the responses. I see no rule anywhere that says any sort of response is not allowed so the suggestion that we broke a rule is unfounded. I stay out of the SIG forums and let those stand as they may. The difference is they actually discuss a faith! Mr Turtle comes here and has posted over and over the same content ad nauseam. And now to try and avoid critique he’s moving that same content to other sub forums. I would think this verges on antagonizing and spamming and should be dealt with. Especially after the council has already taken some of his content and created a journal for him. One he has yet to return to where he could post this sort of stuff in complete freedom.

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5 years 4 months ago #330207 by
Scientists have taken these anecdotal statements seriously, pooled hours of funds and research and time into gathering anecdotal evidence together, finding out if there is any correlation, if that correlation might have any causation. I think it is fair to share their work into these discussions. I don't see it as different. I see it as sharing viewpoints. It is sharing an anecdote of a sort. The anecdote of a very very tired scientist who did their very best in a lab, and here - this is the paper I published at the end of my research.

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #330209 by OB1Shinobi
In a place where people congregate in order label themselves after futuristic space wizards, i dont think its so unreasonable that some opportunity might be allowed for those who want to explore ideas about magic or alternative realities, or what-have-you, without all the scientists coming in to demand proof and declaring the topic bunk when no satisfactory proof is given.

Obviously we are a community committed to the pursuits of personal growth and honesty with each other and its not realistic to expect a totally incredulous proposition or topic to go on unchallenged. “As iron sharpens iron, so one person strenghtens another”- we learn how to be good at thinking by exploring subjects in an organized and rational way. How to think well is a life skill that carries over to all sorts of areas and i know many peope here have benefited from the opportunity to participate in the types of discussions which demonstrate and cultivate that ability.

One of the points i feel is relevant to this instance is OP’s age. Not my business to guess a number but i remember a time in my life when all i wanted to talk about was Batman and ninjas and i feel thats a reasonable comparison. Yaba wants to see himself as a magical person in a magical world— is the community of futuristic space wizards going to tell him he isnt? Lol. We are also committed to the ideals of tolerance and acceptance and Yabuturtle seems to want to stay where he is, so to speak....

Wheres the middle ground? Who needs to adjust and exaclty what adjustment need be made? Is there a process Yabaturtle could learn so he can walk the line between the merely fantastic and the outright incredulous? Is there some point where the scientists should just chill out and let the space wizards have their fun?

People are complicated.
Last edit: 5 years 4 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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5 years 4 months ago #330211 by
Thank you Obi1, I think that hits it precisely, and it is why I have suggested that small process of applying the phrase "In my opinion", "My experience is", "I was excited by the claims of..." Being self referential about a personal experience seems a reasonable request, and doesn't remove any element of space wizardry, does it?

I do not wish to silence space wizards, or why would I be here revelling in all your company? I enjoy it, and embrace it with open arms.

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5 years 4 months ago #330212 by Gisteron
Hmm, I guess I just take people and topics more seriously.
We have a humour section for all of the silly fun stuff, the fiction and mythology more broadly is discussed in the common teachings and individual apprenticeships, and in public all of the time, as are possible interpretations and their utility/applicability to our real lives, and you and Kyrin and I have participated in those discussions without causing much of a fuss, engaging with the stories, and entertaining ideas within them. We not only let people have their fun, we actively participate in it.
It would, however, I find, be irresponsible to just sit idly by watching people sacrifice their critical faculties on the altar of space wizard giggles. I don't know how old Yabu is, nor do I care. To me he is a person first, and that's how I treat him. I engage with him as I would with most others, with honesty, patience, and about as much respect as I can muster. That respect is often great enough that I couldn't just not take someone seriously when they are being serious on the grounds of "well, we call ourselves Jedi anyway, so how serious can we really be?".
Is that position an extreme, and the healthy middle ground between it and the other one? That is for each of us to judge on our own. I for one didn't come here to demand proof or debunk anything. I asked what was going to be discussed and am still waiting on an answer. The worst I did here was getting slightly agitated at some hypocrisy and a cheeky nitpick about dinosaurs.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #330217 by Adder

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

JLSpinner wrote: Agreed, lets keep the debunking out of the faith section. This is a space for people to explore spiritual matters. Something, of which, is the focus of a majority of our members.


I could not disagree with this statement more. Gist pretty much summed it up well and he is right, this is not a SIG and what Mr Turtle has posted here is not something I would even consider faith.

<snip>

I stay out of the SIG forums and let those stand as they may. The difference is they actually discuss a faith!


Yea it's in that area, so falls within that category. We cannot have a subarea for every faith people might want to discuss, so it does not need its own subarea with SIG. This is its location;
Forum - Special Interest Groups - Faiths - A hidden history about humanity, dimensions and spirituality


Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Mr Turtle comes here and has posted over and over the same content ad nauseam. And now to try and avoid critique he’s moving that same content to other sub forums. I would think this verges on antagonizing and spamming and should be dealt with. Especially after the council has already taken some of his content and created a journal for him. One he has yet to return to where he could post this sort of stuff in complete freedom.



If you don't like it, don't read it or respond perhaps. If you think its akin to trolling then we all know the best way to deal with trolls is to avoid them. There is nothing wrong with people posting topics you don't like... the more (people posting topics) the merrier so long as they aren't breaches of the rules.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 5 years 4 months ago by Adder.
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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #330218 by Adder

Gisteron wrote: Hmm, I guess I just take people and topics more seriously.
We have a humour section for all of the silly fun stuff, the fiction and mythology more broadly is discussed in the common teachings and individual apprenticeships, and in public all of the time, as are possible interpretations and their utility/applicability to our real lives, and you and Kyrin and I have participated in those discussions without causing much of a fuss, engaging with the stories, and entertaining ideas within them. We not only let people have their fun, we actively participate in it.
It would, however, I find, be irresponsible to just sit idly by watching people sacrifice their critical faculties on the altar of space wizard giggles. I don't know how old Yabu is, nor do I care. To me he is a person first, and that's how I treat him. I engage with him as I would with most others, with honesty, patience, and about as much respect as I can muster. That respect is often great enough that I couldn't just not take someone seriously when they are being serious on the grounds of "well, we call ourselves Jedi anyway, so how serious can we really be?".
Is that position an extreme, and the healthy middle ground between it and the other one? That is for each of us to judge on our own. I for one didn't come here to demand proof or debunk anything. I asked what was going to be discussed and am still waiting on an answer. The worst I did here was getting slightly agitated at some hypocrisy and a cheeky nitpick about dinosaurs.


I think that is why faith is its own thing, but faith can be seen to sit outside of delusion - by being belief on topics where no evidence exists to disprove......... rather then belief on topics where evidence exists to the contrary. Delusion is unhealthy, but faith can have real practical import into spirituality. I feel that distinction is important in regards to the operation of forums on this particular topic and imagine it is why we have a faith section - hence my post yesterday outlining how I see proper use of it.

And thanks for not asking a members age, because minors are not allowed to say their age and therefore asking puts them almost in a no-win position where it could be seen they were a minor because they did not reply.... sorta thing. Though its probably safer to stay away from the age discrimination thing, I know in some areas of mental health adults can have mental ages way younger - and in the same vein, it's pretty impolite to try and use that publicly as a justification for your own critical opinions of someone to their content - remember the rule about dealing with topics not people.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 5 years 4 months ago by Adder.

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5 years 4 months ago - 5 years 4 months ago #330219 by Gisteron
Not quite sure why I have to repeat this a third time, but nothing about this thread's topic is the kind of thing you wouldn't find in open discussions nor is it anything like what you would find in the SIGs. The only reason it is here is so that this entirely off-topic argument can be had in case lying and whining doesn't quite cut it. How you fail to see through something this obvious is a greater mystery than any of those that I assume would have gotten attention in the thread if we had established and stuck with a topic.


Adder wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Mr Turtle comes here and has posted over and over the same content ad nauseam. And now to try and avoid critique he’s moving that same content to other sub forums. I would think this verges on antagonizing and spamming and should be dealt with. Especially after the council has already taken some of his content and created a journal for him. One he has yet to return to where he could post this sort of stuff in complete freedom.



If you don't like it, don't read it or respond perhaps. If you think its akin to trolling then we all know the best way to deal with trolls is to avoid them. There is nothing wrong with people posting topics you don't like... the more (people posting topics) the merrier so long as they aren't breaches of the rules.

Oh if only, if only this applied to posts all the same. See, I can't for the life of me recall anyone expressing any dissatisfaction with the threads existence. Noone is complaining about not liking topics posted. The only actual complaints I hear is about a certain non-trivial kind of response that can actually make for interesting discussion. Look, there is nothing wrong about not liking being engaged with or watching others being engaged with. There is nothing wrong about not liking people. You can tell Kyrin, or myself for that matter, that our kind ain't welcome here, it's okay. But don't pretend like it is us who are whining about things we don't like when we actually do and would much rather talk about the topic, when clearly it is you who is disliking something about it. The entire reason we can't talk about the topic is because some people want to instead argue about what amounts to literally noone doing anything wrong whatsoever.



Also, on the same note, as of the composing of this message, the FAQ still says that there are currently five SIGs and it lists five, and "Faiths" is not on that list. A nitpick, no doubt, but if the argument is going to keep coming up, I might as well point out the error again.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
Last edit: 5 years 4 months ago by Gisteron.

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