A hidden history about humanity, dimensions and spirituality

Silvermane wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote:

My psychic powers inform me that you made this up.

You can do better than this. Be coachable!

I agree that people should be more coach-able and willing to accept feedback. However I believe the feedback needs to be constructive to help someone grow and not just tell them they are wrong. The feedback also needs to have provable facts in it as well, especially if you are blatantly telling someone they are wrong.

To play Devil's Advocate on what you said, OB1, how do you know that Yabuturtle made up what happened to him in the forest? Were you physically there when it happened? What proof do you offer, besides your own opinion on what is real and what is not, to substantiate your claim? Yabuturtle told us something he experienced and I've spoken with others who have experienced the same phenomenon. None of them had proof to back it up but does that mean they are instantly lying? Do we instantly discredit someone because it does not fit into our reality? Something to think about.

It's ok. I wouldn't worry about what they say. I never understood that. I feel like we should try respect each other's experiences instead of putting each other down. It doesn't help us grow. Much like how if I am in a Jedi forum and say "lolz you didn't experience the force" It's kind of arrogant really.

On another note, I noticed you are into the norse religion which I find interesting. I know some of those videos like the ones I was posting talk about the mythologies. I have known many religions talk about the different realms. I wanted to ask if perhaps the norse faith touches on the subject of different realms aside from the afterlife.

Interestingly In Celtic religion there is the Otherworld which is debatable and somewhat tricky as celts hardly wrote stuff down. Some had said if you died, you ended up in this world and if you died there you end up back here? Something interesting I had found almost like reincarnation and you are born into another body but in a different world

Yabuturtle wrote:

Silvermane wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote:

My psychic powers inform me that you made this up.

You can do better than this. Be coachable!

I agree that people should be more coach-able and willing to accept feedback. However I believe the feedback needs to be constructive to help someone grow and not just tell them they are wrong. The feedback also needs to have provable facts in it as well, especially if you are blatantly telling someone they are wrong.

To play Devil's Advocate on what you said, OB1, how do you know that Yabuturtle made up what happened to him in the forest? Were you physically there when it happened? What proof do you offer, besides your own opinion on what is real and what is not, to substantiate your claim? Yabuturtle told us something he experienced and I've spoken with others who have experienced the same phenomenon. None of them had proof to back it up but does that mean they are instantly lying? Do we instantly discredit someone because it does not fit into our reality? Something to think about.

It's ok. I wouldn't worry about what they say. I never understood that. I feel like we should try respect each other's experiences instead of putting each other down. It doesn't help us grow. Much like how if I am in a Jedi forum and say "lolz you didn't experience the force" It's kind of arrogant really.

On another note, I noticed you are into the norse religion which I find interesting. I know some of those videos like the ones I was posting talk about the mythologies. I have known many religions talk about the different realms. I wanted to ask if perhaps the norse faith touches on the subject of different realms aside from the afterlife.

Interestingly In Celtic religion there is the Otherworld which is debatable and somewhat tricky as celts hardly wrote stuff down. Some had said if you died, you ended up in this world and if you died there you end up back here? Something interesting I had found almost like reincarnation and you are born into another body but in a different world

Yes. The Norse Mythology has 9 worlds in it:
Niflheim
Muspelheim
Asgard
Midgard
Jotunheim
Vanaheim
Alfheim
Svartalfheim
Helheim

Most the Æsir (Norse Gods) live in Asgard while the humans live on Midgard. It doesn’t take much to look up some information on it. If you really want some of the best information I would recommend reading the Poetic Edda. It is a long book and it’s all poems but it has most of the information pertaining to the Norse mythology. I will tell you though, it is not an easy read so if you want simple, you can find sites that have a lot of the information pulled from the Eddas and listed for easier reading. If you are gathering information from the MCU, you are barking up the wrong tree. That’s like trying to find historical facts in reading or watching “Interview with a Vampire”.

As for what the others are saying, they aren’t doing it to be malicious or to be arrogant. There are many people here who like a strong, in-depth discussion and they can get pretty animated when the discussions heat up. They also supply facts and ways to find/check those facts. Believe me, Gisteron used to get my blood boiling at times because of the way he would phrase things and I would feel like he was being arrogant and condescending. I’ve since learned that is not what he is doing but he is very blunt and to the point, which many people, myself included, thought he was just being rude. Like I said previously, you have to be willing to take the feedback that is given. Personal experiences are great but if they are on the far side of most people’s believability spectrum you have to be ready for the hard questions and be able to present facts to back it up. Also, don’t get so easily offended. It is easier said than done sometimes but we are all here to learn and grow. If you aren’t willing to open yourself to the information the are trying to share with you, you are stunting your own growth.

MTFBWY

OB1Shinobi wrote: Thank you Silvermane for being a respectful poster and speaking up in a reasonable tone. I do hope my reply seems reasonable. Im an irreverent bastrd and sometimes my words seem hardher than my actual mood. I hope thats not the case here.

You're welcome and your reply was very reasonable good sir. When we are blunt and to the point our words seem to be more harsh and criticizing but this day and age has bred thin-skinned individuals who struggle with being hit with the truth in such a way. People striving to be Jedi need to learn to accept those “blows” as a learning experience. If I remember correctly, the last time I was here, for one of the longer stints, you and I were friends and had many good conversations as well.

I’ve already explained that my powers revealed the truth to me. My connection with the Force. I double confirmed it with a reading of my Tarot Cards. Are you questioning my powers? My connection with the Force? Do you have some proof that the Force didn’t show me the truth? Were you physically there with me when I read the Cards?

Lol

The better question is “how do you not know this is a kid teling tales?”

When you first mentioned that, I was not sure if you were being sarcastic or honest. The written word is sometimes hard to decipher in such a way, lol. I do not question your abilities or what the Force has shown you, I was merely playing the Devil’s Advocate to offer up questions, not just for Yabuturtle, but in general. The reason being is that my reality, your reality, Yabuturtle’s reality is all different. We believe, think and see things differently so who’s to say that my reality is more true than yours or his? We cannot do that. Now that being said, when you start trying to give facts and say what is true for the whole world but are not backing up those facts with hard evidence and keep denying the provable facts that are being presented, that is being close minded and willfully ignorant and that is not the Jedi way. I’ve spoken with Yabuturtle regarding this and hope he will open himself up more to what is being said to him.

Im definitely not saying we should go nit picking Yaba’s (or anyone elses) posts to call them liars for every unusual detail. Im saying that Yabaturtle has a history of “white lies” on this forum and in my opinion it is the RESPONSIBILITY of any and all adults who happen to be around, - from time to time, at least - to explain to the young man that the people around him are aware of what hes doing (most of us, anyway), that he loses our respect when he does it, and that theres a MUCH better/more useful/powerful way to carry himself.

I agree. It is our duty to separate the fact from the fiction and provide true and honest feedback so people can get correct information. This is a little more difficult when it comes to supernatural personal experiences because there is no way to prove or disprove it. When someone has shown themselves to be on the side of dishonest it does make it harder to trust in their word and their personal experiences. In that case, I would say, to Yabuturtle, to stay away from subjects that are borderline fantasy and stick with conversations that can be backed up with hard evidence. Rebuild that trust and prove yourself by action.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I think you need to take OB1s quote for what it truly is. A bit of sarcasm that serves the purpose of rejecting the claim that Mr Turtle made. OB1 is not saying it could not have happened, only that he does not believe it happened. In this case OB1 does not have to provide evidence that it did not happen. You asking for evidence from OB1 is actually a logical fallacy called shifting the burden of proof.

Not necessarily. What I did was ask OB1 how he knew Turtle to be 100% making things up but also challenge him to think about how he looks at and responds to anyone else who is making the same type of claim. I also believe that OB1’s response was full of worthwhile information and answered exactly what I was looking for. I do appreciate your willingness to back up OB1, though he hardly needs it, and also offer evidence to further prove what OB1 was talking about.

I understand people's responses. I just want people to understand the difference between a debate and a discussion. Especially since this in on the well, Faith part of discussion. i.e. to have faith in something. Something to believe in.

The topic as many forgot, was to discuss about hidden universes. Not debate on whether hidden universes exist or not.

Yabuturtle wrote: I understand people's responses. I just want people to understand the difference between a debate and a discussion. Especially since this in on the well, Faith part of discussion. i.e. to have faith in something. Something to believe in.

The topic as many forgot, was to discuss about hidden universes. Not debate on whether hidden universes exist or not.

Keep in mind that you also get the choice to go down the rabbit holes with people who are deviating from the subject of the discussion. There are ways to politely remind them that their line of questioning or comments is not in line with the subject and ask them to keep it on topic. Please also make sure to clearly state what that topic is and what you want the subject matter to be. If you say "time slips and different dimensions... GO" people are going to take that as an open subject to discuss belief or disbelief and a wide range of other things around it. Be specific in your intentions on how you would like the conversations to go and be willing to direct those conversations. If you follow Alice down the rabbit hole and let someone direct the thread with something off topic, you chose to engage in it and allowed it to happen. Just some food for thought.

Yabuturtle wrote: I understand people's responses. I just want people to understand the difference between a debate and a discussion. Especially since this in on the well, Faith part of discussion. i.e. to have faith in something. Something to believe in.

The topic as many forgot, was to discuss about hidden universes. Not debate on whether hidden universes exist or not.

I don't see any difference whatsoever. And the fact that this is in the faiths subforum despite not being about any faiths is really irrelevant considering how you have the exact same opposition to any and all critical discourse in the discussions subforum as well. I thought you would bring up the place you posted it in eventually, as yet another layer of protection against the horrors of actual discussion. Didn't take long...

Gisteron wrote: I don't see any difference whatsoever. And the fact that this is in the faiths subforum despite not being about any faiths is really irrelevant considering how you have the exact same opposition to any and all critical discourse in the discussions subforum as well. I thought you would bring up the place you posted it in eventually, as yet another layer of protection against the horrors of actual discussion. Didn't take long...

Yab is right IMO, its a 'faith' section in a 'special interest group' section.. if you've not got a special interest in the particular faith, then your not letting the forum be used for its intended purpose IMO which is for those folk to discuss things within a group dynamic insofar as the platform supports.

And yea, if the faith is not defined by a subforum category then it would be dependent on the OP, again IMO.

So if your special interest in that topic is to criticize it, then start a thread about criticizing it... but derailing other threads in that area seems like a rule violation to me, given the above reasoning.

Agreed, lets keep the debunking out of the faith section. This is a space for people to explore spiritual matters. Something, of which, is the focus of a majority of our members.

I possess no power to "not let the forum be used for its intended purpose". Nothing about what kind of discussion is supposed to occur her is stated either in the FAQ or the description of the subforum. If discussion of substance is unwelcome here, maybe that should be made more explicit somewhere. As it stands, the only rule regulating what content can be posted in what subforum pertains to links only, which, in my case, does not apply, since I did not post any. The FAQ also only lists "Abrahamic, Eastern, Pagan, Science, and Philosophy" as the currently existing SIGs, all of which have dedicated sections as of the time of my writing this post. "Faiths" is not currently itself an SIG.

As I pointed out in my last response, the only reason this is coming up is that Yabu wants to only read some particular types of responses, and not others. He seems to be seeking for that in almost any somewhat interesting thread he makes, though, so I have come to the not entirely unreasonable impression that the reason this thread is posted here rather than elsewhere is not at all related to the nature of the topic itself, especially seeing how the same topic(s) has/have been brought up several times in recent weeks elsewhere on the site.
Yabu is, at any rate, and as much as anyone and everyone else, free to read or to not read any responses posted, and to engage with any or none of them, at his own discretion. My posting here infringes on noone else's nor must I bear any responsibility over whether someone is disturbed by it if I can have no reasonable expectation of the disturbance under the assumption that I'm talking to people I am to respect as equals. I have violated no regulation either by the letter or the spirit, and shown far less disrespect than I received, but if I am unwelcome here in spite of all of that, do feel free to lock me out for now, and consider in future to make access to the SIG subforum opt-in only.

The SIG's encompass:

Faith
Philosophy
Science

The OP does not, unfortunately, direct the conversation with any sort of real preamble, thefore, people are unaware of how to engage with it. They engage with it however they see fit unless provided direction.

The OP contains a two hour video. If anyone has the attention span to consider it, they should at least be allowed to engage with its thesis'

If I believe in faith healing and I post a video of Benny Hinn healing people with no guiding questions, where most of my sources are anecdotal or not peer reviewed, of course it will be debated.

I understand faith healing has not been proven by science, but if I ask, has anyone ever had experiences with faith healing? Healed someone? Been healed themselves? How did it work for you?

Its a little different. It may still be debated. I'm not trying to prove the existance of faith healing. I'm asking for anecdotes.

Its no guarantee. But it might work. /shrug

JLSpinner wrote: Agreed, lets keep the debunking out of the faith section. This is a space for people to explore spiritual matters. Something, of which, is the focus of a majority of our members.

I could not disagree with this statement more. Gist pretty much summed it up well and he is right, this is not a SIG and what Mr Turtle has posted here is not something I would even consider faith. He sure did not phrase it that way nor did he clarify his intention, even after he was directly asked to. I would say this thread needs moved if anything. Posting a 2 hour video of Sasquatch coming out of the 10th dimension and teaching dingos to eat babies is not a faith.

I see no reason to try and sensor responses in this forum just because a single individual does not like some of the responses. I see no rule anywhere that says any sort of response is not allowed so the suggestion that we broke a rule is unfounded. I stay out of the SIG forums and let those stand as they may. The difference is they actually discuss a faith! Mr Turtle comes here and has posted over and over the same content ad nauseam. And now to try and avoid critique he’s moving that same content to other sub forums. I would think this verges on antagonizing and spamming and should be dealt with. Especially after the council has already taken some of his content and created a journal for him. One he has yet to return to where he could post this sort of stuff in complete freedom.

Scientists have taken these anecdotal statements seriously, pooled hours of funds and research and time into gathering anecdotal evidence together, finding out if there is any correlation, if that correlation might have any causation. I think it is fair to share their work into these discussions. I don't see it as different. I see it as sharing viewpoints. It is sharing an anecdote of a sort. The anecdote of a very very tired scientist who did their very best in a lab, and here - this is the paper I published at the end of my research.

In a place where people congregate in order label themselves after futuristic space wizards, i dont think its so unreasonable that some opportunity might be allowed for those who want to explore ideas about magic or alternative realities, or what-have-you, without all the scientists coming in to demand proof and declaring the topic bunk when no satisfactory proof is given.

Obviously we are a community committed to the pursuits of personal growth and honesty with each other and its not realistic to expect a totally incredulous proposition or topic to go on unchallenged. “As iron sharpens iron, so one person strenghtens another”- we learn how to be good at thinking by exploring subjects in an organized and rational way. How to think well is a life skill that carries over to all sorts of areas and i know many peope here have benefited from the opportunity to participate in the types of discussions which demonstrate and cultivate that ability.

One of the points i feel is relevant to this instance is OP’s age. Not my business to guess a number but i remember a time in my life when all i wanted to talk about was Batman and ninjas and i feel thats a reasonable comparison. Yaba wants to see himself as a magical person in a magical world— is the community of futuristic space wizards going to tell him he isnt? Lol. We are also committed to the ideals of tolerance and acceptance and Yabuturtle seems to want to stay where he is, so to speak....

Wheres the middle ground? Who needs to adjust and exaclty what adjustment need be made? Is there a process Yabaturtle could learn so he can walk the line between the merely fantastic and the outright incredulous? Is there some point where the scientists should just chill out and let the space wizards have their fun?

Thank you Obi1, I think that hits it precisely, and it is why I have suggested that small process of applying the phrase "In my opinion", "My experience is", "I was excited by the claims of..." Being self referential about a personal experience seems a reasonable request, and doesn't remove any element of space wizardry, does it?

I do not wish to silence space wizards, or why would I be here revelling in all your company? I enjoy it, and embrace it with open arms.

Hmm, I guess I just take people and topics more seriously.
We have a humour section for all of the silly fun stuff, the fiction and mythology more broadly is discussed in the common teachings and individual apprenticeships, and in public all of the time, as are possible interpretations and their utility/applicability to our real lives, and you and Kyrin and I have participated in those discussions without causing much of a fuss, engaging with the stories, and entertaining ideas within them. We not only let people have their fun, we actively participate in it.
It would, however, I find, be irresponsible to just sit idly by watching people sacrifice their critical faculties on the altar of space wizard giggles. I don't know how old Yabu is, nor do I care. To me he is a person first, and that's how I treat him. I engage with him as I would with most others, with honesty, patience, and about as much respect as I can muster. That respect is often great enough that I couldn't just not take someone seriously when they are being serious on the grounds of "well, we call ourselves Jedi anyway, so how serious can we really be?".
Is that position an extreme, and the healthy middle ground between it and the other one? That is for each of us to judge on our own. I for one didn't come here to demand proof or debunk anything. I asked what was going to be discussed and am still waiting on an answer. The worst I did here was getting slightly agitated at some hypocrisy and a cheeky nitpick about dinosaurs.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

JLSpinner wrote: Agreed, lets keep the debunking out of the faith section. This is a space for people to explore spiritual matters. Something, of which, is the focus of a majority of our members.

I could not disagree with this statement more. Gist pretty much summed it up well and he is right, this is not a SIG and what Mr Turtle has posted here is not something I would even consider faith.

<snip>

I stay out of the SIG forums and let those stand as they may. The difference is they actually discuss a faith!

Yea it's in that area, so falls within that category. We cannot have a subarea for every faith people might want to discuss, so it does not need its own subarea with SIG. This is its location;
Forum - Special Interest Groups - Faiths - A hidden history about humanity, dimensions and spirituality

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Mr Turtle comes here and has posted over and over the same content ad nauseam. And now to try and avoid critique he’s moving that same content to other sub forums. I would think this verges on antagonizing and spamming and should be dealt with. Especially after the council has already taken some of his content and created a journal for him. One he has yet to return to where he could post this sort of stuff in complete freedom.

If you don't like it, don't read it or respond perhaps. If you think its akin to trolling then we all know the best way to deal with trolls is to avoid them. There is nothing wrong with people posting topics you don't like... the more (people posting topics) the merrier so long as they aren't breaches of the rules.

Gisteron wrote: Hmm, I guess I just take people and topics more seriously.
We have a humour section for all of the silly fun stuff, the fiction and mythology more broadly is discussed in the common teachings and individual apprenticeships, and in public all of the time, as are possible interpretations and their utility/applicability to our real lives, and you and Kyrin and I have participated in those discussions without causing much of a fuss, engaging with the stories, and entertaining ideas within them. We not only let people have their fun, we actively participate in it.
It would, however, I find, be irresponsible to just sit idly by watching people sacrifice their critical faculties on the altar of space wizard giggles. I don't know how old Yabu is, nor do I care. To me he is a person first, and that's how I treat him. I engage with him as I would with most others, with honesty, patience, and about as much respect as I can muster. That respect is often great enough that I couldn't just not take someone seriously when they are being serious on the grounds of "well, we call ourselves Jedi anyway, so how serious can we really be?".
Is that position an extreme, and the healthy middle ground between it and the other one? That is for each of us to judge on our own. I for one didn't come here to demand proof or debunk anything. I asked what was going to be discussed and am still waiting on an answer. The worst I did here was getting slightly agitated at some hypocrisy and a cheeky nitpick about dinosaurs.

I think that is why faith is its own thing, but faith can be seen to sit outside of delusion - by being belief on topics where no evidence exists to disprove......... rather then belief on topics where evidence exists to the contrary. Delusion is unhealthy, but faith can have real practical import into spirituality. I feel that distinction is important in regards to the operation of forums on this particular topic and imagine it is why we have a faith section - hence my post yesterday outlining how I see proper use of it.

And thanks for not asking a members age, because minors are not allowed to say their age and therefore asking puts them almost in a no-win position where it could be seen they were a minor because they did not reply.... sorta thing. Though its probably safer to stay away from the age discrimination thing, I know in some areas of mental health adults can have mental ages way younger - and in the same vein, it's pretty impolite to try and use that publicly as a justification for your own critical opinions of someone to their content - remember the rule about dealing with topics not people.

Not quite sure why I have to repeat this a third time, but nothing about this thread's topic is the kind of thing you wouldn't find in open discussions nor is it anything like what you would find in the SIGs. The only reason it is here is so that this entirely off-topic argument can be had in case lying and whining doesn't quite cut it. How you fail to see through something this obvious is a greater mystery than any of those that I assume would have gotten attention in the thread if we had established and stuck with a topic.

Adder wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Mr Turtle comes here and has posted over and over the same content ad nauseam. And now to try and avoid critique he’s moving that same content to other sub forums. I would think this verges on antagonizing and spamming and should be dealt with. Especially after the council has already taken some of his content and created a journal for him. One he has yet to return to where he could post this sort of stuff in complete freedom.

If you don't like it, don't read it or respond perhaps. If you think its akin to trolling then we all know the best way to deal with trolls is to avoid them. There is nothing wrong with people posting topics you don't like... the more (people posting topics) the merrier so long as they aren't breaches of the rules.

Oh if only, if only this applied to posts all the same. See, I can't for the life of me recall anyone expressing any dissatisfaction with the threads existence. Noone is complaining about not liking topics posted. The only actual complaints I hear is about a certain non-trivial kind of response that can actually make for interesting discussion. Look, there is nothing wrong about not liking being engaged with or watching others being engaged with. There is nothing wrong about not liking people. You can tell Kyrin, or myself for that matter, that our kind ain't welcome here, it's okay. But don't pretend like it is us who are whining about things we don't like when we actually do and would much rather talk about the topic, when clearly it is you who is disliking something about it. The entire reason we can't talk about the topic is because some people want to instead argue about what amounts to literally noone doing anything wrong whatsoever.



Also, on the same note, as of the composing of this message, the FAQ still says that there are currently five SIGs and it lists five, and "Faiths" is not on that list. A nitpick, no doubt, but if the argument is going to keep coming up, I might as well point out the error again.

Gisteron wrote: Not quite sure why I have to repeat this a third time, but nothing about this thread's topic is the kind of thing you wouldn't find in open discussions nor is it anything like what you would find in the SIGs. The only reason it is here is so that this entirely off-topic argument can be had in case lying and whining doesn't quite cut it. How you fail to see through something this obvious is a greater mystery than got any attention in the thread.

It was posted in this area I presume because it was operating on concepts of faith. Just because you decide a topic can be posted elsewhere is entirely irrelevant. So keep repeating.it you feel the need to for some reason but it makes no difference to me as its moot.

Gisteron wrote: Oh if only, if only this applied to posts all the same. See, I can't for the life of me recall anyone expressing any dissatisfaction with the threads existence. Noone is complaining about not liking topics posted. The only actual complaints I hear is about a certain non-trivial kind of response that can actually make for interesting discussion. Look, there is nothing wrong about not liking being engaged with or watching others being engaged with. There is nothing wrong about not liking people. You can tell Kyrin, or myself for that matter, that our kind ain't welcome here, it's okay. But don't pretend like it is us who are whining about things we don't like when we actually do and would much rather talk about the topic, when clearly it is you who is disliking something about it. The entire reason we can't talk about the topic is because some people want to instead argue about what amounts to literally noone doing anything wrong whatsoever.

That's a misrepresentation of what is being discussed, so another topic entirely I suppose.... as broadening the scope of what is being discussed to outside Faith forums and saying its not relevant, when what is being discussed is regarding Faith forums.... is just noise I guess? Or do you have some tangible point? The purpose of a forum area is integral to its use, otherwise we'd just have one big discussion area. Structure is what allows focus to enable refined effort and perhaps outcomes. They are even named to represent the nature of interest so intent can be aligned with participation. It's why I'm not having this discussion in the similar topic in the Open Discussion area.... because its a different area with a different purpose.

Gisteron wrote: Also, on the same note, as of the composing of this message, the FAQ still says that there are currently five SIGs and it lists five, and "Faiths" is not on that list. A nitpick, no doubt, but if the argument is going to keep coming up, I might as well point out the error again.

Ya think. Well if nitpicking the letter of the law is how you like to operate outside it then that is why the world ends up with stupid large bodies of laws. I'll just call it the spirit of the law because its always been designed and used to allow focus on those areas without critique of those areas. The laws are often out dated, but certainly if you were being held to some administrative or disciplinary action I would recommend using the letter of the law as much as possible.

Gisteron wrote: Hmm, I guess I just take people and topics more seriously.

True. I dont take much of anything very seriously here, anymore.

We have a humour section for all of the silly fun stuff, the fiction and mythology more broadly is discussed in the common teachings and individual apprenticeships, and in public all of the time, as are possible interpretations and their utility/applicability to our real lives, and you and Kyrin and I have participated in those discussions without causing much of a fuss, engaging with the stories, and entertaining ideas within them. We not only let people have their fun, we actively participate in it.

Yea. We’re all pretty freakin awesome, i agree.

It would, however, I find, be irresponsible to just sit idly by watching people sacrifice their critical faculties on the altar of space wizard giggles.

“Space wizard giggles” made me lol

Anyway, in the case of Yabuturtle lets just be real: hes not sacrificing anything: he never developed it to begin with. And hes not interested. I dont think he even reads your posts anymore. Or if he does its a cursory review, skipping all the parts that are either difficult to read or contrary to what he already believes—which basically means skipping them altogether lol You going to club him iger the head with those “critical faculties”? You might find on impact that theres less substance than youd expected, lol

I don't know how old Yabu is, nor do I care. To me he is a person first, and that's how I treat him.

That reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5csKkUsnyjE

I engage with him as I would with most others, with honesty, patience, and about as much respect as I can muster.

Im gonna give credit where credit is due: there have been many times when ive read your replies to Yabu and thought “Gist is being very self-controlled in the way hes talking” ... meaning ive been impressed with how you kept returning to the conversations maturely and stayed focused on the points, without throwing in unnecessary personal barbs. And i believe he would benefit greatly from reciprocating the dialogue. I just dont think its gonna happen.

That respect is often great enough that I couldn't just not take someone seriously when they are being serious on the grounds of "well, we call ourselves Jedi anyway, so how serious can we really be?".

This is the one im wrestling with the most. Everybody comes here looking for something a little bit different and the Community has got to be of service in more than one way, to more than one kind of person. I really dont want to insitgate a culture of “woo” silliness. But theres also people here who believe in some very....unconventional things. Shamanism and Magick and Psy and what have you. Some of those people i have come to like and respect over the years that ive been here and Id like to see them be able to talk about topics that are, lets say, unscientific, if they want to. We will never get past the “prove it” part of the discussion if we require every claim to be substantiated with confirmable, objective evidence.

Is that position an extreme, and the healthy middle ground between it and the other one? That is for each of us to judge on our own. I for one didn't come here to demand proof or debunk anything. I asked what was going to be discussed and am still waiting on an answer. The worst I did here was getting slightly agitated at some hypocrisy and a cheeky nitpick about dinosaurs.

Yea he still hasnt answered your original question, lol. In combat sports we’d say hes “ducking you” - meaning he is afraid and doesnt want to face you, lol