Sith Realist Resources

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Look around Ranger - your in it .

Yea I know. I was asking you why you thought it was bad.

Topic: Sith Realist Resources

Feel free to pm me directly - my inbox is always open.

Stormcaller wrote: I'm going to point out previous post of mine as an example:
I responded without thinking, and I created a problem where there was none.
At this point I'm arguing time and place, rather than leaning one way or another.
I the martial arts analogy, Kobos, as someone who's done a little Shaolin Wushu, myself. Indeed, contemplation can make one slow to act, but not all life is a battle.

When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.
I Think maybe we all can sense when troubles coming are way, but sometimes being purely reactionary is a problem, as well.
I've heard too many stories about well trained individuals accidentally harming someone over nothing.
I guess what I'm trying to argue is what I realize that we're kind of in agreement on?
Time and place, and learning to intuit the distinction?

Wise words my friend. We are very much in an agreement, I particularly like the second part, it is something I will do well by to consider deeply. I often use marital arts metaphors because they are kind of an easy was out of explaining what I mean sometimes. Even the most well trained do harm over nothing, sadly this is the case in many things in life. I think what I was getting at with that metaphor is that is it better to react or to contemplate? Is it better to try and find a balance of the two? In what point is there a balance? It is very paradoxical but I believe that there is a balance but it comes from an odd place. With the hammer quote, I think about some of taking care of the house when I was living with roommates. Do we really have a hammer, or are we using a multi-tool all the time, just using it like a hammer anyway, when we could always use one of the other tools? And in the end why? I think this is where the difference in the 2 codes is. (This may be another horrible metaphor so stick with me, sorry......)



This has been a truly interesting discussion, many perspectives lead to many things but when we stick strictly to the philosophical it is much more productive as long as the guy trying to explain isn't babbling horrible metaphors . Sorry it took a while to respond. There has been a lot to think about in this thread, thank you Storm Caller, Carlos, Ambert, Manu, Khoas, Connor and for asking great questions Elizabeth for your contribution,

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Topic: Sith Realist Resources

Feel free to pm me directly - my inbox is always open.

Well I asked you this question because I did feel it was relevant to this thread discussion. I want to know what it is that you find to repulsive about Sith teachings that you would go so far as to exclude it from an otherwise syncretic philosophy? But if you feel it irrelevant then that is fine. However I did ask you the question here and that inbox you speak so much about works both ways. I checked this am and my inbox is empty even though I asked you the question. From this I can only conclude you will continue to avoid the question and that is fine. Because of that I find no reason to pursue this further...




On to better things...

The internal core of our being is manifest through thoughts in two personified forms - a sinister entity and an altruistic entity. We are not our thoughts, we are the thinker of our thoughts in these two aspects. They are called by many names, the self and the shadow, the hero and the villain, the slayer and the monster, the driver and the dark passenger. We manifest these aspects externally in the form of a single entity or persona that works as a protective mask we present to the world. But deep within we are in a constant labor for balance.

The sinister entity is the seat of creativity representing the true spirit of life in contrast against the altruistic entity. She is the monster, the unconscious, the wild animal that provides for survival of self in the form of the lizard brain. She is the executor of grand schemes and amazing goals, the extroverted beast of building. But she is incapable of building anything that lasts because she lives in the moment, and is the source of rage and seeks momentary gratification. However she can be made agreeable as the wolf in the analogy above.

The altruistic entity is the seat of rationality representing logic and restraint and sees the benefit of long term goals. She is the hero that balances the villain, the slayer that tempers the monsters motion forward. She is the introvert that is the builder from the chaos of the monster. She needs that monster for the raw construction material but must also constantly put that construct at risk of destruction from the monster in the form of sacrifice. In this way the sinister entity is a tool to master through negotiated aggreability but one must also never forget that she is still wild. The altruistic one is the dog - the well trained one, in the analogy above.

Unbalance occurs when one entity stops the other from proceeding in some way. When the plans of the villain don’t interfere with the freedom of others the collaboration is productive. However if the progress of the villain does interfere with the freedoms of others it becomes destructive and the job of the hero becomes one to interrupt those goals. In this process there are times when one entity gains to much control over the other and in either case the results are detrimental. The wild instinct of the sinister one is deeply attractive. It is a seductive raw power that makes us feel safe. But it must be always be tempered by the altruistic in order to find the inspiration to strive for betterment.

Humans are killers; we hunt, we fight and we rage war. The dark is a part of us and it always will be. It is part of the human condition. But that darkness is not who we are any more than the thoughts in our head is who we are. They are simply the constructs of personal defense and survival that work to keep us alive. It creates the drive for survival and creation. Knowing this and embracing it allows choice. Fear is its greatest gift. The difference is in the handling of that fear. When a Sith feels fear she seeks outward to destroy the cause and transformation is the result. When a Jedi feels fear she looks inward to changing herself to never feel a so called "negative" emotion again.

Peace is a lie because passion is ever present as well and it hurts to ignore or not pursue that passion in your life. Conversely though when you are pursuing that passion suffering to become better is manifest so either way peace is a temporary yet false state. We need to find a way to not box everything as being ‘good’ or ‘bad’. A bad thought doesn’t make you a bad person, acting on it does. We are the sum of our actions and not the thoughts in our head. I hear people say they don’t want to be a monster and a few sentences later say that evil people don’t know they are evil. To me this is a contradiction. If you are truly a monster will you ever know it? If this is the case is there really such a thing as evil? I think not. The thing to take away from this is that we are all just human and just as flawed as ever. But there is an intense beauty in that. The Jedi try and deny that beauty but I think the Sith embrace it.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: The difference is in the handling of that fear. When a Sith feels fear she seeks outward to destroy the cause and transformation is the result. When a Jedi feels fear she looks inward to changing herself to never feel a so called "negative" emotion again.

Peace is a lie because passion is ever present as well and it hurts to ignore or not pursue that passion in your life. Conversely though when you are pursuing that passion suffering to become better is manifest so either way peace is a temporary yet false state. We need to find a way to not box everything as being ‘good’ or ‘bad’. A bad thought doesn’t make you a bad person, acting on it does. We are the sum of our actions and not the thoughts in our head. I hear people say they don’t want to be a monster and a few sentences later say that evil people don’t know they are evil. To me this is a contradiction. If you are truly a monster will you ever know it? If this is the case is there really such a thing as evil? I think not. The thing to take away from this is that we are all just human and just as flawed as ever. But there is an intense beauty in that. The Jedi try and deny that beauty but I think the Sith embrace it.

I like your explanation of human duality it is quite fitting and very much inline with reality. However, there are a few things I disagree with. Passion is ever present, it's needed to achieve that is a fact or else no one would be motivated to do anything, ever. Like passion, peace is ever present also, neither is actually related to one another, that's a figment of us trying to place things into good and bad categories (which we both know doesn't work). Peace is always there you just have to look for it, as is chaos. Tends to be it will always be where you actually look for it.

When a Jedi looks at fear do they really focus on just trying to look inward and hoping to train themselves to never feel a "negative" emotion again?
I personally do not think so, not in my path anyway, a Sith may look to destroy it (and that is a valid path in my eyes as as long as it is not directly harmful to others), I see it as a Jedi should look inward (as a Sith would) to identify the source and reshape it or rebuild it. I accept my negative emotions, in fact it is a good thing to feel them sometimes. As for rejecting the beauty of the imperfect human, (correct me if I am wrong Khaos) I think both Sith and Jedi do almost the exact same, recognize the beauty and then alter it to their specific needs.

Just some thoughts.
Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

I personally do not think so, not in my path anyway, a Sith may look to destroy it (and that is a valid path in my eyes as as long as it is not directly harmful to others), I see it as a Jedi should look inward (as a Sith would) to identify the source and reshape it or rebuild it. I accept my negative emotions, in fact it is a good thing to feel them sometimes. As for rejecting the beauty of the imperfect human, (correct me if I am wrong Khaos) I think both Sith and Jedi do almost the exact same, recognize the beauty and then alter it to their specific needs.

I would not say a Sith seeks destruction. In fact Sith seek creation.

Destruction is sometimes necessary, and is not avoided when it is. There is also a matter of taking as much pride, and care in what you are destroying as well as creating. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.

Also I wouldnt say Sith look inward, they just start inward. The language may seem like semantics, and maybe it is, but important semantics. The idea is to move outward, ever outward. Changing your world in accordance with your will.

"Magic is the science and art of causing change in conformance with the will"-Aleister Crowley

As for recognizing the beauty of the imperfect human and embracing it? Oh no, not at all.

We alter it sure, and were anyone really ok with the flaws that are, within, or without, would never seek to change anything.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: On to better things...

The internal core of our being is manifest through thoughts in two personified forms - a sinister entity and an altruistic entity.

I'm more of a monist, there being only one fundamental Force. Like how the dark side of the Moon is not another Moon, but just a side of it... and that there is no negative Force or positive Force, just the Force. In that example they are not even natures of the Moon, but more broadly the light dark dichotomy are measures of something. And our 'entity of self' is understood in concepts, of which there is a multitude of options! Not a duality, in my opinion.

It rather just happens to be that particular conceptual model that we can use in decision making and self identity has polar ends of 'good' and 'bad', on terms of our experience of existence, but there'd be others. That spectrum model is useful as it relates directly to the language of mapping, which is probably how our brain functions as a perceptive system. But I'd think that works best when viewed as having the same importance as every other point along the spectrum and not elevating the poles to importance and then imbuing them as 'right' and 'wrong'. If not just because they are conditional and/or circumstantial representations which hold the most validity only in the past, so they tend to chain one in subjective and habitual modes.

TLDR things don't have to be black and white for them to be easy to understand.

So in relationship to behavioural models, a concept of entity in a 'Force' sense to me is more about direct perception of external and internal and a third non-dual connectiveness. The point being that this nature of focus breaks chains and barriers and could be a more effective way to work with both past and present to shape ones future. So for me the Sith paradigm with that approach is more on the internal, while the Jedi is more on the external (in the context of sacrifice), BUT the same fundamental mechanism of 'Force practice' exists in both with all three overlapping areas being of focus. In this way, I consider someone is able to be one and other at different times and that either one can be a full and complete path, and that the labels either represent their focus or their mask. In a social setting a mask serves to hide or promote oneself, while in a ritual private space a mask serves focus. So in my mind, there is no grey Jedi and Sith is either hiding or selling themselves.... while a Jedi is exemplifying the Force connection by representing their focus (since by virtue of the social setting the focus is external). How is that for confusing :silly:

My explanation was not meant to imply any sort of dual nature. It is a single nature aspected in different forms through personified archetypes. Its impracticle to try and relate that to the sides of a moon because personality archetypes are not real, as in physical. They do not exist "in a space". Therefore they can manifest in ways we as physical creatures would have a hard time comprehending.

As for a sith embracing the beauty of our flawed nature I dont see that as a static position. In fact it is the very core of a dynamic position. Perfection is not something that can be a challenge because there is no work to be done. However a flawed state is one in which transformation can occur and therein lies the challenge for a sith. All transformative creation also has a component of destruction and if your not willing to sacrifice that part no creation can occur.

Sith are willing to sacrifice for that transformation while jedi want to keep in place what is already there but only add to it. That is the difference. The jedi way is cumbersome and inefficient, the sith way is brutal but concise and highly effective.

Sith are willing to sacrifice for that transformation while jedi want to keep in place what is already there but only add to it. That is the difference. The jedi way is cumbersome and inefficient, the sith way is brutal but concise and highly effective.[/quote]

Not all Jedi—- and some Jedi - including myself can agree most Jedi are a bit Sith minded if you really wanna get to it , because in reality - the balance of light and dark of black and white exist - balance is often the quest for each individual. No one code can be called right or wrong and no idea or way can claim to be fully the ONE- some do- but we as humans are entitled to our own opinions over things. Which is better and which is not is like watching people cheer for their fav sports team. That’s to each person for their own reason - balance- their own balance of things. To be aware that there is a Sith code is encouraged. To seek wisdom is encouraged. To seek- flat out - is encouraged. To create your own balance is as well! Which path you choose is to the individual as well. That’s one of the joys of being human- we have that choice we can use any time we want. To have a balanceand atroce for that- CAN -be the same as enjoying the beauty and the mess of things, but once again that’s to the individual-
Jedi teaching #3 says
3. Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now. We let ourselves flow like water through the events around us. We embrace the ever changing and fluid world, adapting and changing as it does.

Some days it’s neither Sith nor Jedi but just taking the time to stop and think.


Edit: truly in real life, there is no competition.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Jedi teaching #3 says
3. Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now. We let ourselves flow like water through the events around us. We embrace the ever changing and fluid world, adapting and changing as it does.

Edit: truly in real life, there is no competition.

You actually make my point with this. All life is competition, even if that competition is with self.

A sith will never allow the river to take them. They would never give up that power. Instead they manipulate the river, change its course, corrupt its flow and reshape it to a design they require without regard to what others feel it should be. They imbue it with their essence and as a result transform it to fulfill their desires. There is nothing passive in this where intent is just accepted. It is a wholly active process where intent is forced outward in accordance with the siths will. Jedi allow themselves to be shaped by their environment, while on the other hand sith shape their environment to their design.