Sith Realist Resources

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15 Oct 2018 00:01 #327993 by Tetrahedron
Replied by Tetrahedron on topic Sith Realist Resources
In my opinion the Sith crave power for it's own sake, external power, power over others and an attempt to not feel helpless, as a defense mechanism, or to feel superior. I'm sure there are other reasons, and it's a reflex, its the other side of a coin and the down to up. They believe they will be rewarded for the force, materially.

I feel Jedi-ism is seeking internal power for it's own sake. for union with the Force. It's linking up with the divine and trying to do the thing that is most harmonious.
Not power over another, or a situation, but power over your own reactions and responses. If you're looking for any spiritual path for material gain, IMO it's all in vain.

I'm not saying one is bad or wrong, just that one seems more driven to control and exalt the ego, whereas the other is trying to dissolve the ego and merge with the divine energies, whatever you may call them.

Someone may ask then why choose one over another? I think the question is really what are you trying to accomplish in general?

There is good and evil in all of us, positive and negative and it's all divine expression that we can ACT like we understand but do not. No one does.
We don't even know what we are actually made of. All we can do is try our best and IMO Sith is not the best we can do, for reasons stated above.
Focusing on either the too negative or too positive can be detrimental even for Jedi.

That being said, l lean towards the light, some lean towards the dark. We all need each other, there IS no up without down, shrugs.

Meh - -my 2 cents.

“Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.”
― Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
“The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune
www.ulc.net/index.php?page=minister_data&id=30216
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15 Oct 2018 00:10 - 15 Oct 2018 00:11 #327995 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Sith Realist Resources
As a mechanism (working model); having two natures, a spatial frame and a temporal frame to allow connection to it through time as a concept, to employ and to measure results and refine;

Spatial Frame - Teeth;
Charge (Essence) - Peace is a lie, there is only passion. ~ there is always conflict somewhere, its just that when its non-violent it happens to be consensual (in a manner of speaking).

Orbit (Path) - Through passion, I gain strength. ~ conflict is the interaction of competing forces ie resistance, which enables growth.

Spin (Nature) - Through strength, I gain power. ~ literal, strength gives a capability improvement.

Temporal Frame - Tongue;
Charge (Essence) - Through power, I gain victory. ~ victory over, question frame.

Orbit (Path) - Through victory, my chains are broken. ~ victory over, answer frame.

Spin (Nature) - The Force shall set me free. ~ modality of work.

In effect a pure focus on 'Force connection', perhaps relating back to the fiction in that it could be said to be devoid of morals or other conditions. In which case it might serve as a lens to target focused effort and reward purely about Force connection. That would be my guess. A contrasting Jedi view to that might argue that some morals are inherent in the essence of the Force, stuff like what is mentioned in the Jedi Doctrine maybe even taken as far as intrinsic mutualism in which case a selfish centered view of the Force might be a distortion and counterproductive in the longer run, albeit more rewarding potentially in the shorter term.... depending on how close one wants to sit with, and what parts of, the fiction.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 15 Oct 2018 00:11 by Adder.
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15 Oct 2018 13:07 #328008 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Sith Realist Resources
This is my current interpretation of the Sith code.

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.

I take this to be similar to the Buddhist Noble Truth of “There is Suffering/Dissatisfaction”. And as it is in Buddhism, it does not mean life IS suffering, but that dissatisfaction is a fact of life. Thus, no matter how well I learn to “quiet” myself, I will never achieve perfect peace, because it is a fact of life that we all have something that moves us, that makes life worth suffering... this is passion.

Because passion (whatever yearning so strong it is worth suffering for) is so deeply personal, I can only speak as to what I am passionate about. I cannot determine what others should be. I also compare this to Thelema (True Will) as opposed to fleeting desire (which is not worth suffering for, and thus vanishes).

Through Passion, I gain strength.

Because “Passion” (that which we yearn for so strongly that is worth suffering) is inherently connected to our deepest motivators, in the pursuit of Passion I find strength, because nothing springs me more powerfully into action than that which I value most deeply.

I also compare this with one-pointedness: when I focus on which matters most and let that which does not fall to the side, all my energy and vitality is available for the task at hand. It is a process of purification, if letting that which does not matter slide. Passion remains.

Through Strength, I gain Power.

This vital force, purified and entirely directed towards one goal, this strength of “character”, leads to power. This power (the ability to perform an action) is increased by strength of one-pointed thought and action, and the enthusiasm and devotion to it, allows me to effectively communicate my “vision” (the future fruition of passion), which is the basis upon which leadership stands. Thus, power is increased because internally, I increase my ability to get things done, and externally, I increase my ability to leverage others’ effort into getting things done (i.e. scalability). The circle of influence grows, leading others to pursue their passion as well, and participate in mine for however long they share my vision.

Through Power, I gain Victory.

Through the process of discarding the irrelevant, pursuing passion, increasing vital force towards my vision, and widening my circle of influence, I am able to attain the fruition of my vision.

Through Victory, my chains are broken.

Passion is my “True Will”, not some flight of fancy or fleeting desire. Thus, it is a force to be reckoned with. Ignore it, try to quiet it, and it will always continue to come up again and again in different ways. I am chained to it, in a way, though I love it. By seeing my Passion bear its fruit, satisfaction is complete, and thus the chains are broken.

From there, Passion continues to be refined, flow, modified as I continue to become aware of it, and the same process of sacrifice, strength, power and victory continues, always aiming for new heights.

The Force shall set me free.

I’m not big on theism, so in my agnostic interpretation, I liken “Force” with Force of nature. When I follow my Passion, increase Strength, Power, and attain Victory, I become a force to be reckoned with. I become unstoppable (at least until Death meets me). I live life in my own design, thus, I am free.

Note: I find nothing about this Code incompatible with Jediism.

If your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
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15 Oct 2018 13:27 - 15 Oct 2018 13:28 #328009 by Ambert The Traveller

I take this to be similar to the Buddhist Noble Truth of “There is Suffering/Dissatisfaction”. I also compare this to Thelema (True Will) as opposed to fleeting desire (which is not worth suffering for, and thus vanishes).


And these are the four noble truths uttered by the Buddha:

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to re-becoming, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for becoming, craving for disbecoming.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is this noble eightfold path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.[web 7]

---

You might not be aware that the craving for 'what is worth suffering for', is the cause of your suffering.
You seem to accept this, because it seems to allow you to achieve the goal of the craving.
You might not be aware that achieving the goal of the craving will not release you from suffering.
But by promoting the craving to achieve success at all cost, you will likely increase the suffering.
As the success is impermanent, it will only lead to more craving and more suffering.
This path will most certainly not lead you to freedom from suffering, but to it's increase.

--

There are plenty of ways to be successful without lighting fires.
Last edit: 15 Oct 2018 13:28 by Ambert The Traveller.
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15 Oct 2018 14:55 #328011 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Sith Realist Resources

Ambert The Traveller wrote: You might not be aware that the craving for 'what is worth suffering for', is the cause of your suffering.
You seem to accept this, because it seems to allow you to achieve the goal of the craving.
You might not be aware that achieving the goal of the craving will not release you from suffering.
But by promoting the craving to achieve success at all cost, you will likely increase the suffering.
As the success is impermanent, it will only lead to more craving and more suffering.
This path will most certainly not lead you to freedom from suffering, but to it's increase.


This is where the Buddha and I part ways. Buddhism stipulates that we can achieve cessation of suffering. I claim that this is only true for those things that do not truly matter to us. Even after deconstructing all the attachments we build by virtue of our upbringing, experiences, and mismanaged thoughts and emotions, there remains a small but ever-present spark, tucked away in the darkest corners of our being, unquenchable.

You are correct in stating that suffering will increase, but life is short, and suffering for what you truly value is actually a beautiful thing. At least it feels that way for me. I am passionate about my family, and long work hours, huge sacrifices, little sleep, and giving them all my attention even when I feel I can no longer keep on going, is something I would not trade for a hundred lifetimes of "peace". I invite this kind of suffering.

Is there something in your life worth your suffering?

Ambert The Traveller wrote: There are plenty of ways to be successful without lighting fires.


I don't understand. Please clarify.

If your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
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15 Oct 2018 14:58 #328012 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Sith Realist Resources
So as I have read through this I have seen some awesome discussion here and I want to ask, why do we as a general group see these as 2 sides of a coin?

Perhaps, if I may, present it as such. Would you consider these 2 philosophical/spiritual codes to be not sides of the coin but the edge? The faces being the conclusions we choose to draw from them?

just some philosophic rambling

Much Love, respect and Peace,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis
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15 Oct 2018 15:25 #328013 by Zephyrus
Replied by Zephyrus on topic Sith Realist Resources
Kobos,

Some would argue that they are not related at all. Not even on the same coin. Lol

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite
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15 Oct 2018 15:46 #328014 by Kelrax Lorcken
It's bad form in debate to misrepresent a quote or anything like that to make it falsely support your argument. If the full information or context contradicts your argument, then you should think better of including it.

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
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15 Oct 2018 15:47 #328015 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Sith Realist Resources
That could be very true, touche. But isn't it kind of an underlying theme of the ever present force and one's ability to connect to it a major component of both creeds? I would say this at minimum places us in the same cash drawer ;)

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis

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15 Oct 2018 16:00 #328017 by Khaos
Replied by Khaos on topic Sith Realist Resources
I see them as both distinct and onto themselves. See it how you like. I only ask if it is working for you to do so. Results do not lie.

Hugs and Kisses.
~Khaos~
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