Sith Realist Resources

I find, personally, that those who can honestly critique their own beliefs are the ones who are most well-adjusted and psychologically healthy.

If you can't take a hard look at the fallibility of your own belief system, then how can you see it with any perspective?

Are your beliefs not the end result of your observations and criticisms?

Like the food you choose to eat, the clothes you choose to wear, the people you choose to have relationships with, etc?

Criticizing your own beliefs is like criticizing your own taste for strawberries or your own love for your children. Not something I would classify as 'well adjusted' or 'psychologically healthy'.

ren wrote: I consider you assertion that I do not accept criticism a personal attack. I have not dismissed criticism as criticism hasn't been served. I simply stated the truth: jedi churches are not the best place to ask for crticism of jedi teachings, christian churches are not the best place to ask for criticism of jesus.

Asking a priest to criticize jesus is not quite the same thing as asking him questions about his faith, which is what you are compairing this discussion to, as if you were dealing with someone who's unaware of the manipulative techniques you are employing.

You are making some rather wild asssumptions and violating totjo's terms of use. Stop it.

It appears that you are also making assumptions. I am not *trying* to employ any manipulative techniques either, for the record.

I consider criticism of one’s own faith more valuable from supporters than from dissenters, as those who dissent are quick to latch on to emotional responses based on personal experience, while those who continue in a faith have usually worked through any “moments of crisis” that might have appeared in their lives. Which is why I prefered talking to Catholic priests directly, who were quick to offer criticism of their faith (not Jesus, but official Church stances) , and a reconciliation as well.

And yet, they'll never be perfect. Good beliefs should change over time as more information is learned. Flexibility is a sign of a healthy person.

I don't agree with what you've said. Let's take Christians, for example. If a Christian believes the Bible is literal, they're just wrong. There's no two ways about it. And, a "good" Christian would continue to examine their beliefs and see if there are issues with them. Perhaps they'd get a book and see what historians and theologians have to say. Perhaps they'd even find out that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who was interested in overthrowing the Roman rule at Jerusalem.

Being skeptical is the sign of intellect, and can lead to great wisdom.

A church's stance is not one's faith, much like the jedi code is not a totjo management policy...

I am not *trying* to employ any manipulative techniques either, for the record.

I never said you tried, I pointed out you did employ. I saw a strawman in there, and ad hominem at least, possibly more, can't really be arsed to look back :laugh:

ren wrote: A church's stance is not one's faith, much like the jedi code is not a totjo management policy...

Alright?

ren wrote: I never said you tried, I pointed out you did employ. I saw a strawman in there, and ad hominem at least, possibly more, can't really be arsed to look back :laugh:

Well let’s leave all the assumptions behind us then. I’ve got no beef with you.

I do find it laughable to imply that “good Jedi” never question their faith as part of the process of practicing it.

Connor L. wrote: And yet, they'll never be perfect. Good beliefs should change over time as more information is learned. Flexibility is a sign of a healthy person.

I don't agree with what you've said. Let's take Christians, for example. If a Christian believes the Bible is literal, they're just wrong. There's no two ways about it. And, a "good" Christian would continue to examine their beliefs and see if there are issues with them. Perhaps they'd get a book and see what historians and theologians have to say. Perhaps they'd even find out that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who was interested in overthrowing the Roman rule at Jerusalem.

Being skeptical is the sign of intellect, and can lead to great wisdom.

I think we use the word faith in very different ways. To me faith is the inevitable result of my entire lfe's thoughts (or those i can remember, or otherwise subconsciously affect me). To you it appears it is a form of imposition.

To me if a christian believes the bible is literal they're wrong. If they believe the bible is not literal they're wrong. If I thought any kind of christian was right (as opposed to wrong) i would be that kind of christian.

If I think something is wrong, it necessarily is something I do not believe in. I literally do the opposite of believing in it. The beliefs change, but the processes that lead to the beliefs do not.

There’s nothing wrong with one or the other and frankly , there is really no competition between the two. To teach one way and and not the other is like saying one is better than the other. Reality they are not. Here we are not a Sith Temple. We are a Jedi Order. So, can you see that the only competition present is the only one we bring. Learn everything. Try everything - even the dark side if you like - we don’t teach that here though - you realize that? That’s like me going to let’s say - Danny J s church site and preaching Totjo s doctorine. I can’t and won’t ever do that... bad form and - that’s kinda jevenile. I would hope that better ideas are past here to learn - not - to argue or compete. On that note - why would you try to teach the dark side at a Jedi Temple? Why is it some ones goal to “make others know” Free will dwells in this place just as anything from else. We also have rules. Take this to heart - don’t try to teach Sith doctorine in a Jedi Temple - it’s bad form. That should be standard right ? Common sense even? Give the common courtesy due in an obvious setting. Any ones free to learn anything they want and even share it here but use a bit of tact. Please and thank you.

Connor L. wrote: And yet, they'll never be perfect. Good beliefs should change over time as more information is learned. Flexibility is a sign of a healthy person.

I don't agree with what you've said. Let's take Christians, for example. If a Christian believes the Bible is literal, they're just wrong. There's no two ways about it. And, a "good" Christian would continue to examine their beliefs and see if there are issues with them. Perhaps they'd get a book and see what historians and theologians have to say. Perhaps they'd even find out that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who was interested in overthrowing the Roman rule at Jerusalem.

Being skeptical is the sign of intellect, and can lead to great wisdom.

I think we use the word faith in very different ways. To me faith is the inevitable result of my entire lfe's thoughts (or those i can remember, or otherwise subconsciously affect me). To you it appears it is a form of imposition.

To me if a christian believes the bible is literal they're wrong. If they believe the bible is not literal they're wrong. If I thought any kind of christian was right (as opposed to wrong) i would be that kind of christian.

If I think something is wrong, it necessarily is something I do not believe in. I literally do the opposite of believing in it. The beliefs change, but the processes that lead to the beliefs do not.

I do find it laughable to imply that “good Jedi” never question their faith as part of the process of practicing it.

There was no such implication. I thought we were leaving assumptions behind?

Manu, Connor, you both really seem to have taken a decidedly adversarial position in this discussion, and gotten somewhat off topic from the actual thread. Please reconsider what you are arguing compared to the actual discussion presented.
At this point, I can objectively say you're no longer contributing to a discussion, you're trying to win an argument.
Please consider stepping back and consider what good is actually expected to come from this continuous echo chamber.
Ren, if I may be so presumptuous, it may do you more good as well, to take a step back from this.

On that note - why would you try to teach the dark side at a Jedi Temple? Why is it some ones goal to “make others know...
Any ones free to learn anything they want and even share it here but use a bit of tact. Please and thank you.

There is no teaching happening here. Let me know if you see any teaching.

Connor L. wrote:

On that note - why would you try to teach the dark side at a Jedi Temple? Why is it some ones goal to “make others know...
Any ones free to learn anything they want and even share it here but use a bit of tact. Please and thank you.

There is no teaching happening here. Let me know if you see any teaching.

At the same time -if this is intentional and just for the sake of arguing I’ll have no part in it. You are in a Jedi Temple. Use Tact and common sense please.
Thank you

Why Stormcaller? I'm having a good laugh :laugh:

“Ren” wrote: There was no such implication. I thought we were leaving assumptions behind?

I’m sorry, I had understood that it was your thesis that a member of a faith will not criticize their own beliefs.

Stormcaller, I appreciate your effort to “calm the waters”, but I don’t think either of us (Ren, Connor, or me) have let this discussion get out of hand or become offensive.

The issue of Criticizing one’s own faith is not off topic either, it is at heart of Jediism as Sithism was born out of a schism in Jediism due to a lack of openness.

You're shifting the goal post, now, Connor, which is bad form in debate. This is not the first time you've done it in this discussion. Please stop, as you are now pushing into the realm of mere antagonism.

I would think questioning your faith is something everyone does. It gives a deeper understanding and sometimes leads to a falling away.
Sometimes to return stronger or not at all.

Its part of at least most people I know not to blindly follow.

And the same I would think of the Sith

Its good to have different opinions. And interesting to read peoples opinion about the sith code.

One thing I do wonder the Sith themselves, its not a faith, but a way of life?
So do you believe in the force?
If I say I believe in an energy/life force that connects everything as a Jedi
Does the Sith have a belief similar or not at all?
If not why use this code?
Is there a reason such as familiarity like through star wars to draw people in? Or do you develop your own codes, to live, grow by?
Just dont see how this code fits with what I have read on sith sites.

Or are we discussing it because its at least familiar to Jedi?

Carlos,

This discussion’s purpose is to introduce Sith resources to the people who asked for them.

Everything else is my pokey curiosity and trying to get some interesting discussion going. I see no lack of tact. We’re all learning.

Well
i missed a lot

One thing I do wonder the Sith themselves, its not a faith, but a way of life?
So do you believe in the force?
If I say I believe in an energy/life force that connects everything as a Jedi
Does the Sith have a belief similar or not at all?
If not why use this code?
Is there a reason such as familiarity like through star wars to draw people in? Or do you develop your own codes, to live, grow by?
Just dont see how this code fits with what I have read on sith sites.

Great questions! I’ll run these by sith and see what they have to say.