Light or Shadow?

Then begin naming them off, and telling me exactly why you believe they are Jedi.

I don't want to interrupt or anything.But I think the one who want to be a Jedi like different kind of choices that people tend be a certain way.The only way I think it's to do the training of jediisme . Then trough the process of learning the light of the force .Well, hope you become a Jedi if it is in your nature of thing.Believe in what you studies and the amelioration of training every day is the only way to go from point view . I guess that things come to an extension of your forces.

Where there is a way there is a belief
trough the belief there is you to discover your own path
in thus of your choice an enlightenment .

I took the conversation private... Not that you all should not, or cannot read it, but I am not here to tell all of you how to be a Jedi...

You must find it for yourself... I am here if you need help, or just like to converse ideas..

I dont wanna sound like a know-it-all... And when I start making strong statements, I dont want it to sound like TOTJO is speaking... Its just my opinion...

David, I will respond via PM to you as well...



Carry on!

Some people feel that they need martial arts in order to meet their personal definition of a Jedi. Others do not...does that mean that they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves Jedi?

If your asking do I believe a Jedi can not call themselves as such without some degree of basic self defense knowledge, physical training, and a will to push themselves forward in the are of physical excellence then yes that is what I'm saying. It's my stern and strong view. I shall not be swayed on it nor moved outside of it.

that we need this skill.

What makes you so certain? Is it written down in the Ultimate Jedi Rulebook? Oh wait...no such book exists...

A willingness to denounce our roots entirely does nothing for us except to lower the standard as such that none might even need try to meet it. Instead they may simply step over the bar instead of reach for it.

Similarly with your other conditions of being a Jedi - I agree that they are common themes within the community. But do we really know with certainty that they have to be part of the Jedi path?

Certainly we do. They are reasonable, realistic, and achievable. They are rooted in the Lore yet grounded in the real world. How much more could you ask?

Do we really know anything about the Jedi path with certainty? Every organisation has a slightly different idea of what it means to be a Jedi. Every individual within these organisations has a slightly different idea again.

The lack of willingness to strive for greater things does not change the definition of a thing, nor does it change its nature, nor does it change the basis for how all this started. Throwing away the idea of God and calling yourself a Christian does not make you a Christian. It makes you someone taking a name your not unable to hold up to but are UNWILLING to hold up to. Most take the name Jedi because it makes them feel better. They like the idea of it, it makes them feel special. Why not take the name General, or Sergant then, a title equally not earned. How about Doctor? How about taking the name Martial Artist without any training or focus in that area? How about taking the name Artist when you do nothing that can be considered art? Why is it so easy for these things to be defined and yet "We can not define what a Jedi is" no it's that in defining it we feel bad if we are not living the path. I understand your trepidation if you are trying and failing to reach the bar, and in that I would call you a Jedi for you are walking the path even if the bar is always out of reach. Yet to lower the bar so that it is nothing more than a word, so that it looses all meaning or value, I find that unacceptable.

Each different organisation sets out roughly what they believe, and set out their training and rules based on this. But they also know that diversity is important...

I'm not giving them a pass either. Organizations lowering the bar at every turn does nothing for my view of them.

Let me ask you this - if everyone was in agreement as to a) what we believe and b) how people should live according to what they believe, why do most Jedi organisations operate one-to-one Master/Apprentice training partnerships? Surely if TOTJO, for instance, wanted everyone to have to learn the same things in the same way, they would abolish Apprenticeships in favour of everyone carrying out a rigid training programme?

Because even in the things I listed there are thousands of ways to go about meeting those basic areas, expanding, and training within them. Thousands upon thousands of ways honestly. However just because you call yourself a Martial Artist doesn't give you martial arts. Just because you are taking the name Jedi does not mean you ARE one. Further I can form an organization and have it call you a Martial Artist and it does nothing for your art form, your skills, or your path as one.

People are free to decide how they can best live life as a Jedi...and no two people will do it the same way, nor should we want them to...

I agree and embrace the great diversity of people I have found through these forums. Many of whom ARE Jedi, however for those who are not striving in the Jedi Arts in some way I have NOTHING for them. Again, this is my view, I shall not be swayed. You did ask for clarification though.

the Force manipulation and martial art things just aren't what we do here...

My seal of approval is not required for your continual actions nor is it even requested. I respect that you've gained a large community. However I stand by my stance. Using the fiction as an inspiration and a basic guideline (I barely went out of the first 3 movies) there are areas in here that are lacking. That is a fact. Now you can claim that this group splits off from that but then I ask the question "Why the name Jedi?" if it is not just something to make you FEEL BETTER about the fact that it is just a New Age Spiritualist movement that is going on here?

Now Outside Of That:

None of this is a snip at Totjo. None of this is intended to be a snip at the members here. If I didn't think you all adults that could engage in a friendly conversation, and that I could not share my views here without causing you such injury as to destroy your egos I would not post.

I'll start off then-

AceBoizer:

When she comes into a room, she radiates and causes others to follow in suit.
She has a deep understanding of the philosophy and can easily pass it on.
She constantly strives to improve herself.
She places the needs of the order as one of her highest priorities.
She has wonderful interpersonal communication skills.

Glorifying members in threads isn't really something that we do here at TOTJO...I'm guessing that's why Master Jestor said that he wanted to take the conversation private...

Right. Imma post my own Jedi resume in a sec if this keeps up. I'm not one who doesn't toot his own horn from time to time. I mean, if I don't toot it, who will?

V-Tog wrote: Glorifying members in threads isn't really something that we do here at TOTJO...I'm guessing that's why Master Jestor said that he wanted to take the conversation private...

Yes, this is true... It can cause embarassment to call out on others, and lacks of humility...

HOWEVER... (lol)

After a quick private conversation, I know understand what Alethea is driving at...

So, lets phrase it this way...

You are the omnipotent entity...

You are going to build a Jedi...

Besides the basic human requirements of a body and a brain, what traits would you think the perfect Jedi that you would make, would have?

Physical requirements aside.. For I feel that there are many roles in the Jedi umbrella, so, when you say martial arts, I can direct you to a black belt in a wheel chair who can kick some butt...

Lets call this ideal Jedi, Jedi One...

It's not about glorifying. And that is where you make the mistake of the reason I've brought it into spot light.

It's about showing why this path is something far different from any other path. Until you define it as such, then everyone on the planet becomes a Jedi. Right now, you're not giving the path enough credit. Now, I had not met the man before a few days ago- but here are a few other examples that make some people Jedi using FraterDavid:

Has a base understanding of the Jedi Philosophy.
Works to improve himself through seeking further knowledge.
Has a respect for the responsibility involved in deciding to take on the Jedi Path.
He holds himself to the standards that he currently understands of the Jedi Path.

Do you notice a pattern between him and Ace?

This is what it's coming down to- if you want to call yourself a Jedi, there are base requirements. It's not in the simple "I believe, therefore I am". Even in the Bible, it is outlined that you can't have mere belief to get into Heaven. You don't get the "I believe, therefore I am" luxury there. Not if you read what is really being said.


I have been told that there are members of ToTJO that are reporting to another order (not FA, mind you, a different Jedi Order), because ToTJO isn't providing the substance they are looking for. They want to explore more of what it means to really be a Jedi. That is a problem, in my opinion, because I could go to bat for a few of you as holding to the truth of what it means to be a Jedi. It's the lack of decisiveness in conversations aimed to develop what makes someone a Jedi (such as this thread) that further proves the point of some people taking off.

They look to you guys and say "This is quantity rather than quality", and that drives me crazy. You may not feel you have anything to prove, and that is fine. It's not that I'm asking you to prove yourselves as Jedi, I'm asking you to tell me you are Jedi by telling me how you have cultivated it within yourselves so it provides a role model for those people wanting to jump ship.

And don't think I'm just targeting ToTJO with this- it's the campaign of the month. I'll get to everyone eventually, ToTJO just happens to be the first one I'm concerning myself with.

UraharaKiskue wrote:

V wrote: Some people feel that they need martial arts in order to meet their personal definition of a Jedi. Others do not...does that mean that they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves Jedi?

If your asking do I believe a Jedi can not call themselves as such without some degree of basic self defense knowledge, physical training, and a will to push themselves forward in the are of physical excellence then yes that is what I'm saying. It's my stern and strong view. I shall not be swayed on it nor moved outside of it.

So, one of the greatest minds currently alive cannot be a Jedi? Im referring to Stephen Hawkings...

Should he want to call himself that of course...