Light or Shadow?

5 trials are not required. If you like a more in depth discussion, feel free to start a new topic in the appropriate category.

Jestor wrote:

So, one of the greatest minds currently alive cannot be a Jedi? Im referring to Stephen Hawkings...

Should he want to call himself that of course...

UraharaKiskue wrote:
If he bent his mind toward the arts of the Jedi he certainly could be a Jedi, even a Master, however he would need to hone that admittedly great intellect to those areas of Jedi concern and dedicate himself to the training of bettering those Jedi who can go out in the world to carry out the ideals in day to day life as he can not.

I can hear Stephen Hawking now, in that little synthesized robot voice of his, saying, "Wheels matter not. Look at me. Judge me by my chair, do you? And well you should not! For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Almost as powerful as theoretical physics! Oh wait."

Fraternally in mirth,
-David

I'd think, UraharaKiskue, that one of the greatest Jedi of all time would be worthy of quoting (or paraphrasing) by name. Maybe they've asked their name not be used. If so we'll just have to live with the mystery.

... we're in a situation where someone is bleeding, can someone bandage this wound?

Does this Jedi always carry around a medical kit with bandages and topical coagulant? Splints for injured limbs? A neck brace? What about glucose gel and a Glucagon kit for someone having a hypoglycemia diabetic seizure? Would they recognize one? Do they keep a blood glucose meter with them for these occasions? Do they have insulin on hand for someone in a swoon from hyperglycemia? A compliment of snake bite anti-venom's? Do they drive a van with oxygen tanks, IV drips, a crash cart and a compliment of emergency medicines?

ren wrote:

the Force manipulation and martial art things just aren't what we do here...

Not yet...

Sorry, I managed to miss this post in amongst all the others

Alethea Thompson wrote: It's not about glorifying. And that is where you make the mistake of the reason I've brought it into spot light.

It's about showing why this path is something far different from any other path. Until you define it as such, then everyone on the planet becomes a Jedi. Right now, you're not giving the path enough credit. Now, I had not met the man before a few days ago- but here are a few other examples that make some people Jedi using FraterDavid:

Has a base understanding of the Jedi Philosophy.
Works to improve himself through seeking further knowledge.
Has a respect for the responsibility involved in deciding to take on the Jedi Path.
He holds himself to the standards that he currently understands of the Jedi Path.

Do you notice a pattern between him and Ace?

It may not be your intention but by naming names it does come across as though you are saying that certain people are superior Jedi to everyone else, and that is not something that sits well with me. I do recognize that you are using them as examples, not saying they are the only people who do these things, but it seems much more appropriate to simply list the qualities, rather than refer to individuals.

Alethea Thompson wrote: This is what it's coming down to- if you want to call yourself a Jedi, there are base requirements. It's not in the simple "I believe, therefore I am". Even in the Bible, it is outlined that you can't have mere belief to get into Heaven. You don't get the "I believe, therefore I am" luxury there. Not if you read what is really being said.

I agree in principal, although even then, I would also agree that a Jediist who does nothing more than believe in the Force might have a claim to call themselves a Jedi. Perhaps the fact that TOTJO is a Jediism site and not a Jedi Realist site is what causes these differences of opinion over what it means to be a Jedi.

Alethea Thompson wrote: I have been told that there are members of ToTJO that are reporting to another order (not FA, mind you, a different Jedi Order), because ToTJO isn't providing the substance they are looking for. They want to explore more of what it means to really be a Jedi. That is a problem, in my opinion, because I could go to bat for a few of you as holding to the truth of what it means to be a Jedi. It's the lack of decisiveness in conversations aimed to develop what makes someone a Jedi (such as this thread) that further proves the point of some people taking off.

They look to you guys and say "This is quantity rather than quality", and that drives me crazy. You may not feel you have anything to prove, and that is fine. It's not that I'm asking you to prove yourselves as Jedi, I'm asking you to tell me you are Jedi by telling me how you have cultivated it within yourselves so it provides a role model for those people wanting to jump ship.

In a way it is sad if people feel that they are not getting enough from TOTJO. But actually, if people are not happy with what is offered here it is better for them if they do go and find another organisation that meets their needs. I'm sure that no-one here would begrudge someone for doing so - we all just want what is best for each person.

I don't think that you can look at TOTJO's perceived lack of the things you mentioned and say that it needs to change because people are leaving, because what you are possibly forgetting is that people are not only leaving, but joining. Those who join the site and those of us who are no longer new but have stuck around have chosen to be members of TOTJO for a reason...perhaps for some people it is because of the way in which so much is open to interpretation here. I know that I looked around at all the Jedi sites I could find before deciding to join TOTJO, because it seemed like the best fit for me, and if I had originally gone to another site I might possibly have ended up leaving in order to come here. I'd be really surprised if that hadn't happened with others in the past. So it's swings and roundabouts, really.

How have we gotten so off-topic? :laugh:

ren wrote:

I don't understand how one can "act" the Force being everywhere. beliefs are beliefs, actions are actions. Two different words meaning two different things. Saying otherwise is trying to sound cool, which is unauthentic, which is the same as preaching one thing only to do the opposite.

Once a person accepts the premise that the Force is everywhere, they may then proceed to act on experimentally verifying the truth of that hypothesis by choosing to live in ways that would not be wise or would not make sense if the Force didn't exist or were not everywhere. Examples vary from person to person. But the eventual outcomes would include:

-Never feeling alone
-Naturally avoiding envy and regret
-Forgiving easily
-Not mourning over death
-Having prayer produce consistently desirable results
-Growing in ability to sense others, even at great distances
-Healing others from a distance
-Seeing into the future (because the same Force is there too)

These are just a few ways in which you can "act" or actualize in your life the belief (based on truth) that the Force is everywhere, all the time. All wise beliefs can be turned into actions. Which is not the same thing as saying that all beliefs that can be turned into actions are wise.

Let me know if it is difficult to see how any of the above examples are actualizations of the aforementioned belief.

Fraternally in the Force,
-David

Br. John wrote: I'd think, UraharaKiskue, that one of the greatest Jedi of all time would be worthy of quoting (or paraphrasing) by name. Maybe they've asked their name not be used. If so we'll just have to live with the mystery.

... we're in a situation where someone is bleeding, can someone bandage this wound?

Does this Jedi always carry around a medical kit with bandages and topical coagulant? Splints for injured limbs? A neck brace? What about glucose gel and a Glucagon kit for someone having a hypoglycemia diabetic seizure? Would they recognize one? Do they keep a blood glucose meter with them for these occasions? Do they have insulin on hand for someone in a swoon from hyperglycemia? A compliment of snake bite anti-venom's? Do they drive a van with oxygen tanks, IV drips, a crash cart and a compliment of emergency medicines?

None of those things are overly complicated. But then again I am also an EMT.

Though i do not carry around a full medical kit everywhere i go, I could probably improvise many of those things if I found myself needing them on the spot. I would just be filling in till some on duty EMT's showed up with their full kit though, which very well could save a life. It is not to much to ask that a jedi do the best they are trained to do till the professionals get there.

Andy Spalding wrote:

Br. John wrote: I'd think, UraharaKiskue, that one of the greatest Jedi of all time would be worthy of quoting (or paraphrasing) by name. Maybe they've asked their name not be used. If so we'll just have to live with the mystery.

... we're in a situation where someone is bleeding, can someone bandage this wound?

Does this Jedi always carry around a medical kit with bandages and topical coagulant? Splints for injured limbs? A neck brace? What about glucose gel and a Glucagon kit for someone having a hypoglycemia diabetic seizure? Would they recognize one? Do they keep a blood glucose meter with them for these occasions? Do they have insulin on hand for someone in a swoon from hyperglycemia? A compliment of snake bite anti-venom's? Do they drive a van with oxygen tanks, IV drips, a crash cart and a compliment of emergency medicines?

None of those things are overly complicated. But then again I am also an EMT.

Though i do not carry around a full medical kit everywhere i go, I could probably improvise many of those things if I found myself needing them on the spot. I would just be filling in till some on duty EMT's showed up with their full kit though, which very well could save a life. It is not to much to ask that a jedi do the best they are trained to do till the professionals get there.

On one occasion where I helped someone having a low blood sugar seizure it was in a small convenience grocery store and he was able to drink grape juice I grabbed off the shelf. Once, we discovered my mother unresponsive at home where I did have, and needed, a Glucagon injection kit.

I'm making (at least trying to make) a point on this. We'll see how it goes.

What was that thing we were all wearing we could improvise at a gathering if we needed a bandage... oh yeah... a shirt.

You can tear through your shirt if that is what it takes to save a life. We discussed this at the last Gathering but Andy brought up the better point of it before I got back. Sure your not going to have everything you need. What you got is what your carrying on you, The Force, Your Mind, and a never fail attitude so make them all count for as much as they are worth. Would you really be that defeatist in an emergency?

I hope if we're ever together and my life is on the line you'd not just give up because you didn't bring a field kit with you. I'd hope you'd try your best. I'd hope you'd live up to the Jedi Code and conquer defeatism. I believe many here would conquer defeatism and save my life or the lives of another when the time came. Even if all you could do was take charge of a situation and find someone who DID have the proper skills, TELL someone to call for an ambulance, and tell everyone else to get out of the way or send them to other useful tasks I'd think you'd do that much.

As for the great Master I refer to I shall use his eldest name which is so old that most here will not remember it. I speak of Master Doragon Reklaw.

A few months ago Khaos of the Sith said to me "I look forward to the day when people start quoting real Jedi and not just fictional ones." Khaos, I know your not over here to read this but I'm sure you'll get to hear it from someone. That day has come.