Light or Shadow?

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12 Sep 2012 20:20 - 12 Sep 2012 20:21 #73182 by Lykeios Little Raven

Alethea Thompson wrote: A point of curiousity, Lykeios- why don't you carry one of the names?

I ask because I have seen some not claim a name because they feel it is beyond their reach, or that there are too many whom have ruined the name in society.


Sorry for the lateness of my response Alethea! I missed this question.

For me there isn't really a specific reason to adopt a label/title/name at this time. Also, I feel that labels and names are more limiting than anything. This is, of course, personal opinion and may not apply to other people. Recently I have made it my goal to avoid being overly specific or overly attached to my own ideas and conceptions. In pursuit of that goal I am, for now, attempting to avoid defining myself too narrowly.

I don't really know who or what I am at this point and in my journey of self (re)discovery and redefinition I'm trying to avoid anything that might limit my conceptions or beliefs.

“Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.” -Zhuangzi

“Though, as the crusade presses on, I find myself altogether incapable of staying here in saftey while others shed their blood for such a noble and just cause. For surely must the Almighty be with us even in the sundering of our nation. Our fight is for freedom, for liberty, and for all the principles upon which that aforementioned nation was built.” - Patrick “Madman of Galway” O'Dell
Last edit: 12 Sep 2012 20:21 by Lykeios Little Raven.
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13 Sep 2012 18:21 #73273 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?

I just am really stuck on this topic...

lol, forgive me, my brain wont stop thinking about it... lol...

You know, as I was away, I got to thinking about what you are saying...

You keep saying to be a Jedi...

After further consideration, I think this is what I would refer to as a TOTJO Knight...

I have three apprentices... All in better shape than myself...

One does the P90X... The other two are in the Army still...

So, one check each for their Body training...

Then, they are all working on the mental side...

One check each for the mental side...

Now, I can speak for every apprentice here, nor every knight, nor every master...

But, I would be willing to bet, that any of our members above apprentice, have had the extra training to which you refer... Prolly not all, but neither have all of the us completed the Initiates Program in its current shape, but, as we built it, and continue to modify, we still covered the material...

So, the further we exist, the longer we survive, the more we will grow in this direction...

One of our current apprentices, went from "doin yoga years ago" to now helping teach (if I remember right)...

Any can call themselves a Jedi... Look at all those independents who do... and merely because they want to be cool...

It takes dedication to be a Knight.... This, Alethea, is what you are, you are a knight (at a minimum)...

Dont you think?


This reminds me of something else Doragon Reklaw once said to me. He effectively said "All Masters should be Knights. Knight isn't a rank, it's a direction, eventually you get too old to quest, to go out and do as much, and you become simply a Master but until that point and even up to that point you should be a Master Knight if your going to be a Master at all." or something to that degree. No I'm not quoting Doragon Reklaw as the voice of God or anything. However of the Masters I've met and known he was the first who earned the name from me and the first I paid that respect and nod of my head to that says "You sir, are superior in the field in which you stand, and have earned my respect and gratitude" others have come since, but he was the first.

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13 Sep 2012 20:00 #73279 by PatrickB
Replied by PatrickB on topic Re: Light or Shadow?

Alethea Thompson wrote: I find it very interesting that most of you would agree that ToTJO harbours more the Shadow(Grey) Jedi than Light. I am now curious to know why you identify yourselves as such over the other.

What is the difference, in your opinion?



I just think that Grey is a nice color and there is a shadow on the ground from are body when it's sunny out side .

I' am only joking

Have a nice day everybody

Where there is a shadow there is light
where there is a light there is color

The path to rise for one self is to live among .

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13 Sep 2012 20:22 #73281 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Re: Light or Shadow?
The TOTJO title and rank of Master is short for Master Knight.

Founder of The Order
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13 Sep 2012 23:23 #73295 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?
Ok, seriously... I hadn't read this thread and now it has grown to over 140 replies in 6 days...

Can someone who has read it please provide a tl;dr (too long didn't read) summary for me and anyone else who hasn't read, and can't be bothered, to read nearly 150 replies

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13 Sep 2012 23:29 #73298 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?

Akkarin wrote: Ok, seriously... I hadn't read this thread and now it has grown to over 140 replies in 6 days...

Can someone who has read it please provide a tl;dr (too long didn't read) summary for me and anyone else who hasn't read, and can't be bothered, to read nearly 150 replies


I could give you a response via PM, but I recommend you read the whole thread as I'm interested to know what you would think and how you would respond to Alethea Thompson (who does give her stamp of approval), UraharaKiskue, and FraterDavid on how they view Temple of the Jedi Order and their strict definition of what it means to be a true Jedi.

I don't want it to be an us versus them, not at all, but I think they need to read more responses from other Jedi from this Temple that don't meet their standards of Jedi yet consider themselves as such.

Perhaps it will be as educational for them as reading their thoughts has been educational for me.

My thoughts on this whole thread are forthcoming (I know you all wait with bated breath, lol).

MTFBWY,
LTK

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13 Sep 2012 23:52 #73301 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?

UraharaKiskue, and FraterDavid on how they view Temple of the Jedi Order and their strict definition of what it means to be a true Jedi.


For the record I haven't given a thumbs up or a thumbs down of TOTJO, it's curriculum, or it's Masters/Knights in any way, shape, or form. That would be beyond foul of me to do so as an independent but active Third Party without at least auditing the curriculum, questioning the masters, and being here a good bit longer.

What I have done is list the standard I set for Jedi and have been sufficiently unwavering that all future portraits of me are said to only truly capture my image if made in granite.

All humorous phrases aside I didn't even list the standards in the sheer level of strictness I normally do. I kept everything at what I consider the Core Values. Likewise if someone was not meeting my standard of approval that means precious little honestly.

If the standards I live by, the standards I push for, and the standards I uphold seem aggressive always ask yourself is it that I have set the standard too high to be reached or is it that the standard I set you yourself have set and in finding it beyond your current level have accepted defeat.

The first enemy every Jedi must conquer is defeat. It is in conquering this terrible foe that we strive. It is in striving that we do. It is in doing that we are.

I know a girl who puts in more exercise a day than most of us do a week. She has everything against her in this. However her stern resolve to move forward shows her as a true Jedi.

I consider myself blessed to meet so many true Jedi in my life. Those who take offense to my message because they know they can reach higher I say to them this. Take heart, there are those who have less than you who push harder, push as hard as them and you will do great things.

Jedi doesn't mean doing more than your able to, only just as much as you can.

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14 Sep 2012 00:18 #73307 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?
Sure LTK, I have a long journey tomorrow (I've been on holiday the past 2 days) and I'll give it a read and post my thoughts

I'll be interested, after reading the entirety, what your thoughts will be :)

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14 Sep 2012 00:26 #73309 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?

Learn_To_Know wrote: I think they need to read more responses from other Jedi from this Temple that don't meet their standards of Jedi yet consider themselves as such.

I can't speak for Alethea Thompson or UraharaKiskue, but as for myself:

The only thing I ever commented on is that I think "Jedi" should be an ideal and not a label. Yes, I defined the ideal pretty strictly, as it deserves, if being a Jedi is to mean anything of value. But I asserted nothing that contradicts or reinvents any aspects of the Jedi as portrayed in the movies, except perhaps for the lightsaber bit. But that's understandable.

Believe it or not, I considered my brief definitions of the Jedi ideal to be a bare minimum. Other people more dedicated than myself may see fit to define their Jedi ideal even more strictly. But either way, it is just an ideal, not some ruler they have to measure up to right now, exactly as they currently are, or else they fail the "David test". Please.

Determining identity based on ideals does not exclude people the way that labels can and do. Quote me one place where I ever said that there are specific people here who call themselves Jedi who I don't think are. I never said that. And that even goes for whichever members may actively call themselves Sith. The Jedi path is a complex one, and no one knows where the Hero's Adventure may lead next. I did, however, assert, in the spirit of eschewing labels, that all of this Light and Dark and Shadow business is a bit silly (as a prefix to "Jedi") and is either redundant or contradictory, depending on the combinations. Is that saying anyone here is not a Jedi? Absolutely not.

I have utter confidence that everyone here has the potential (if they have not already manifested it) to become true Jedi by anyone's realistic definition. What is important to me is that we don't let ourselves get side-tracked by making things more complicated or "nerfed" than they need to be.

I realize that things are complicated further by the fact that we are all entitled, as Temple-Member-level members and above, to call ourselves Jedi, to denote that we are members of the Jediist religion. And that's completely fine with me, in that context.

But never forget that the whole reason we want to call ourselves Jedi in the first place is because we aspire to something greater, due to the motivating mental imagery we have acquired from the Star Wars mythos. There would be no term "Jedi" without the latter. What we call ourselves, if it be Jedi, should reflect that primal ideal, or we become hypocrites.

Fraternally in the Force,
-David

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14 Sep 2012 00:58 #73312 by
Replied by on topic Re: Light or Shadow?
This conversation has a special energy and has provided a lot of great I sights and thoughts about what my self can gain from Jediism and the path to knighthood. As I have been enjoying listening to Alan Watts lately I am reverting back to the original query about Grey/Shadow/Dark Jedi.

My question is does Grey exist? Is there such a thing as grey? Or is Grey just a way to say, somewhere between Light and Darkness, between the luma of Black and White, black being the absence of luma/color and white the addition of all of them? (of course only in additive luminescence)

To think about that, and applying it to us, and remembering a bit of Alan Watts, the Book, particularly the chapter about the game of Black and White, could any of us not be Grey Jedi? Some would say oh, it's your intentions that determine it, and that's a perfectly valid answer. I have been thinking, well actually, maybe the only difference between a Light Jedi, a Grey Jedi, and a Sith is that the Jedi and the Sith see the game of black and white and are trying to be part of that White/Black win, a Jedi is a champion of the light. But since the force is the two together, Black and White, and a Jedi must be in tune, or even a instrument of the force is it possible to not be in some degree a Grey Jedi, just some people say, well I'm a Light(White) Jedi because I'm more towards light than darkness. And you have Grey Jedi who wake up and say, wow, I'm both Black and White and embrace the two sides saying it is the Forces nature. And then the Sith says I'm more black than white so I am Sith.

I love thinking about this subject I think it is a core of our Jedi roots, our place in the force. It's at least put forth some good meditation about what I want a Jedi to be for my path. I may also be moving to a Grey Jedi philosophy as well. At least in a qui-gon-esque direction.

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