And you wonder why we don't always want to make outside contacts...

Alethea Thompson wrote: Now onto why you SHOULD get a bigger presence in the community.

Though the flipside of that could be that it is easy for everybody to throw up a website and get a few members and have its own 'angle' of the topic of being Jedi. I know I certainly could. If everyone did that then I feel like it would be even worse for developing a functional community. So I feel like there is an argument then for a degree of centralization so to allow that functionality, and if one group starts to be successful it should not be criticized for not making sure everyone else keeps up.

I'm not sure if that is what is happening here, because I do not follow other Jedi sites but TOTJO seems to be quite successful..... I was new about a year ago, had a look around the Jedi sites, and sorry but saw no real community - just a few people who had some websites and knew each other as friends etc, and were doing various amounts of effort to head in very loosely shared direction. I chose the one which seemed to have its stuff together in the most effective and inclusive manner which was in-line with where my path was taking me, and I've been very happy here at TOTJO ever since.

I've been in, created and run successful online communities before and attacking each other is not quite the best way to proceed - the only time I've ever seen any semblance of TOTJO being anti-anyone is when reminded of actions by other groups against them. What it looks like is other groups being left behind and ganging up on the one site that is successful and the only ammunition they have against it is to call in 'closed up' - because they choose not to join in!!!! I think that's called projection or something but I've got the flu and am medicated so its the painkillers talking LOL.

:silly:

....I'm not going to get into the few things I know about the order in regards to relations with other groups, just know that the situation has improved immensely in the last year and a half.

As to the other orders, that's probably BECAUSE you came about within the last 5 years when we were having some issues with a particular organization. Those of us that should have been focused on our own "piece of the pie" were distracted during and between projects because of said organization. Otherwise, I am confident we would be further along as a whole now.

I think its unfair to say that some other sites are unsuccessful and are therefore ganging up against TOTJO. As a person who has been to several communities (IJRS, FA, AK, Jedi Church, Just Jedi) aside from this one, I am a firm believer that each site or group attracts a certain "fan base" for lack of a better word. I know this may seem like a good reason to say "ok, thats why we will never get along. We attract different people, it would be useless." Well, stubborn as I am, I intend to find the common threads among the sites and make them plain. What we do with this information once it is given, well that's entirely up to us. I'll tell you one thing we wont be able to say is "we cant get along"

http://www.facebook.com/groups/28586881121/doc/10150287070761122/

I am getting an internal error...:huh:

We are reaching out.. lol...

This is what it is called...

We are bumping heads, we are fumbling handshakes, we are stepping on toes as we learn to dance....

This is how it works....

It can't happen, "today!"...

But, like all things, it takes time... And these little bitch sessions, and misunderstandings are a part...

And, not only are we fumbling with meeting, and communicating with "new-to-us" groups, but there are opposing opinions within our own ranks....

This is fine... As we cannot all walk the same path at the same time, some of us will work on our (TOTJO's) internal growth and refinement...

While others here will reach out and make us better, by communicating with the other communities, and bring fresh ideas and thoughts into the Temple....

Akkarin ask early on if we all stalk each other, or the other sites, and id say yes we do...

We do it inbthe spirit of understanding and trying to figure each other out... Probably dome spite and troublemakers in there too, but I would say they are on the lower spectrum....

Knowing Akkarin for a few years now, and Kitsu as well, I could see it as a conversation knowing both, but if you didn't know them, or read them in a snotty, sarcastic internal voice, it kinda sounded nasty...

We all have to go out of our way to show politeness and respect...

Internally, and with close friends, our jokes and mannerisms can be more relaxed....

However we are not all close friends, yet, and we need to be doubly cautious about how we are perceived...

Especially in this emotionless, text, world....

Alethea Thompson wrote: Kit, the following here suggests that you are wrong about how well respected ToTJO is as a Jedi Order., just sayin'.

Wooooah Ally....wait a second. When did I ever say that this community wasn't respected as as a Jedi Order? I merely said they are not Jedi IN MY OPINION There is a BIG big difference there Afterall....no one can argue the NUMBERS here

Kitsu Tails wrote: I merely said they are not Jedi IN MY OPINION There is a BIG big difference there Afterall....no one can argue the NUMBERS here

This is one reason for which I have always cautioned against 'opinions'. It is not a Force-given right to have or to adhere to them. Opinions are like metaphors -- they are never only -- they carry a lot of power. As such, they are not to be wielded nonchalantly.

As it were, to say "in my opinion" is very little different than "I have the impression that ..." In this case, it is nearly always more false than true.

My apologies Kit, I saw your name in here more than I did Hannigan's and ended up writing your name as opposed to his (which is who I meant to address).

OK, this discussion has moved quickly since I was last on so let me try to catch up:

Kitsu: it wasn't what you were saying but the way you appeared to be saying it. You might think that you were making your opinion clear but from another perspective it looked liked you were going to a lot of effort to distance yourself from even the remotest possibility that you could regard us as Jedi. To me, it sounded like you and Hannigan were expressing your thoughts in such a way as to totally disrespect us. And that's MY opinion. You could have quite easily just said "I don't accept their outlook as Jedi" instead of going about things the way you did. Sometimes shouting louder and longer just serves to create a different impression than the one you intended.

It wasn't just one isolated comment but a string of them such as "I dont know which is worse. That you are suggesting I ordain myself through Temple of the Jedi Order....or United Jedi Council" and "TOTJO and UJC ....well...there are reasons why you never see me posting on either of the two". It all suggests that you have a problem with us and aren't afraid to voice it (while not actually stating what the problems are...)

Besides, the fault for this also lies with Hannigan as he played an equal part in the denigration of our site. It was he that directly asserted that TOTJO isn't respected as an organisation. Your words just implied it by siding with his opinion. So apologies if we misread your intentions.


Alethea, the "missing link" I mentioned is on the Jedi Church's own website, not their Facebook page: http://www.jedichurch.org/webapps/d/4448/220428/jedi-ministries

Also, we are making moves to reach out to others in the community. War Beauty has been very forthright in this and so have many others, such as Aceboizor. We are even organising a UK Gathering for ALL Jedi (not just those from TOTJO). So things are happening, but this takes time. We are constantly busy with improving the support and training that we offer our members and this eats up a lot of our resources and time. But we are still making the effort to connect where we can.

Just to set another point straight as well.... Hannigan mentioned in that thread that someone might need to redo their ULC ordination or "just some good bs at totjo for a few months and get ordained through them." In order to become accepted for Clerical Training at TOTJO, you must first complete the Initiate's Programme and this can take 6 months or more. The Clerical Training itself contains lessons about Pastoral Care, the moral and legal responsibilities of Clergy, role-play situations, creation of sermons, discussions of Doctrine, etc. This also takes several months to complete. Even then the work needs to be completed to an acceptable standard and verified by the Council. So I would suggest that it takes a minimum of 9 months of solid work before being considered for Ordination.

Hannigan, I don't understand how you would place more value in a ULC ordination (that only requires filling out a form online) than ours, which as I have mentioned takes a lot more dedication and effort. Or is it a case of ignorance to the facts determining your opinion?

The whole point to me creatinbg the original post in this thread was not to complain about how we are viewed by others. After all, these things only matter if you are unsure of yourself and we have enough faith in our own ways for that to not be a problem. My intention was to point out to all those who have moaned that we aren't doing enough to reach out to the community that this is the kind of response that we have been getting for years.

And we still don't have any word on what the CoJ did to us but then they have been strangely quiet of late...

Your words just implied it by siding with his opinion. So apologies if we misread your intentions.

Hannigans comments are not MY Comments. He and I do not co-post and work together on anything....we are separate beings. Notice how I stopped commenting after he joined in? Everyone who knows hannigan, knows to not take his comments seriously. And if you also notice...My comments were before his, so how could I have been siding with him

As for my own. I would imagine my history within the Jedi Community would be proof enough that your assumptions of my two comments are inaccurate. I've been with the Jedi community longer then this site has been around I have seen this site in it's infant stage, in it's growth and in it's new changes. I stopped posting here years ago for personal reason that I have a right to But as you can see...I am posting now, so obviously you were victim to misunderstanding.

My statement was strong for a reason. It is my belief that If I am to be ordained in a belief or path, i must stand true to it in and on ALL Accounts of that faith. TOTJO Is NOT applicable to that as there are many things here that I disagree with...there for I cannot rightly stand as a minister or ranked individual of this community for myself and my morals...And out of respect to the members here. It would be wrong to have a non follower ordained in their ways. I do not join communities to rake in as many ranks as possible, nor for popularity simply because of legal standing. I felt it extremely necessary to make that perfectly clear in as direct away as I possibly could on a social network page that does not allow editing in comments once they have been made.

Might I caution you to not take comments on Facebook so personally and/or seriously until AFTER you get to know the person who are speaking to...more? And most certainly before you go airing out dirty laundry on other sites without clear understanding of all parties involved?