And you wonder why we don't always want to make outside contacts...

lol it was worth a shot...:woohoo:

Lycaenion wrote: Ghandi maybe...

You'd think that'd be a safe bet but:

"ghandi is in hell because he rejected Christ... not because he was either 'good' or 'bad'"

"Ghandi is in hell because Ghandi wanted to be in hell. Self-righteous, proud and arrogant."

from http://forum.holyculture.net/showthread.php?30479-Ghandi-said&s=1fc021ed99e043e36399f50d130ff696

Then there's Nathuram Godse who thought so much of him he killed him.

http://www.smileosmile.com/celebrities/why-i-killed-gandhi-nathuram-godses-final-address-to-the-court/

In his final address to the court he said:

"Gandhi is being referred to as the Father of the Nation. But if that is so, he had failed his paternal duty inasmuch as he has acted very treacherously to the nation by his consenting to the partitioning of it. I stoutly maintain that Gandhi has failed in his duty. He has proved to be the Father of Pakistan. His inner-voice, his spiritual power and his doctrine of non-violence of which so much is made of, all crumbled before Jinnah’s iron will and proved to be powerless."

Gandhi suggested that the Jews kill themselves instead of allowing themselves to be killed by the germans. He also suggested that britain does not fight back and either abandon its land, r if unable to abandon it, commit suicide.

Basically, some people think he's evil.

And to expand on John's post, it could be said that gandhi was ultimately responsible for the nuclear armament of Pakistan and India.

Pakistan is the #1 terrorist hotspot, so much for non-violence.

Do you think it is inappropriate to strive to BE the good movement, perhaps not universally, but so far as our circle of influence allows? I'm not saying everyone has to agree with everything. We want Jedi, not robots, but the history of so many poorly executed movements should serve as learning tools, not detractors.

No matter how good we are somebody will always have issues. We're not respected. We're not really Jedi. Blah blah blah. And? The entire Real Jedi™ movement is not widely respected (well sheet, it's not respected much at all) and most people think real Jedi are either role playing or delusional.

We know better. I know we're good and you know we're good. We'll get better. Life is change and growth. Two of the biggest mistakes really smart people make are:

1. Not listening to the critics.
2. Listening to the critics.

Then there's plenty of folks who say things they don't believe themselves just for the sake of picking a fight or seeing if they can provoke. Let them. Leave them to play with themselves and don't make their problem our problem.

We're so got damned good some people can't stand it.

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

I remember, long ago, feeling the need to defend my Christianity (when I was a Mormon) from other Christians that claimed I wasn't a real Christian. I find it ironic that the Temple Of The Jedi Order has similar problems in the Jedi "community".

I've learned that splitting these hairs is ultimately unproductive and...quite petty of the accusers anyway. It says more about them than it does about the organization they are negative towards.

What it comes down to is how the Force moves you.

The Force moves some to join the Methodists, it moves others to join the Catholics...

It moves these people to join the Baptists, it moves those people to join the Jedi Church.

This process goes on everyday for millions upon millions of people.

I couldn't care less (other than to respond to this thread, haha) that some might look down on the ordination of our TOTJO ministry members or the Knights and Jedi here.

What matters to me and what I know is that I respect our ministry here; I respect the Knights and Jedi here. I know that I was moved to joined this community back in October of 2011. I look to this Temple as one of the best decisions I made and credit it for helping me see life through a different lens and put behind me some problematic events that were holding me down from my own progression in this opera we call life.

You want to challenge my claim of being a Jedi? You want to insult the clergy at the TOTJO that I respect and admire?

You have that freedom of opinion, and I leave you to it.

I remain a Jedi and the Force is with me as I know it is also with our clergy and other Jedi that claim this Temple as their own.

May The Force Be With You All,
LTK

Jestor wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote: Hello Kitsu!

I say Mindas on here not too long ago, and saw the pics of the kids at the gathering..

Goodness, they are getting big! The kids, not Mindas... lol...

I just wanted to chime in here real quick and say,

Yes, you are most definetly allowed an opinion, as you well know...

I think it was the venom that leaked into your words that shocked me the most...

That's ok, I forgive you.... ... lol..

I don't understand why it is you don't view us as Jedi, but, that's for another thread...[/color]

Hi Jestor! Long time no see!!

Perhaps my comment may appear to have venom....Text on a screen can be very misleading Though I do believe I made mention that I was attempting to make my stance "Clear" Just saying.

Kit, the following here suggests that you are wrong about how well respected ToTJO is as a Jedi Order., just sayin'.

Real quick, I'm not sure where ToTJO was not listed as a Jedi group, but if it was on Jedi Church( the original), allow me to correct your misinformation: http://www.facebook.com/groups/28586881121/doc/10150287070761122/. The last edit was to add CoJ because they were/are beginning to move in the right direction. As you will note, ToTJO has been on there from the get-go. If it wasn't that page...welll then disregard ;).

Now onto why you SHOULD get a bigger presence in the community. Because of comments like Kit's. You cannot foster understanding until you do, and will comtinue to see comments like the one Kit has made. Bottling into this little corner of the community doesn't help your order grow in quality and does not help existing orders grow in quality.

Let me let you in on a little secret, there are offLine members of the community(and I am not including me on this list, nor did I initiate the conversation on it) that would like to see ToTJO represented in the wider community under a. Banner aimed at improving all of us. Around the community, there is one representative from the Light Council at Force Academy, and as a result, she has been able to forge relationships between her order and a couple others. Not only has she done this, but as a result has aided in improving the course load at the FA and at least two other Jedi organizations: Chicago Jedi and Real Jedi Enclave(a newly formed order from Real Jedi Knights). Her dream is to see this happen across the community., even if it means developing the majority of the course load and freely offering it up to the various orders so they don't have to (and even training them in how to teach th work).

At the moment, she is working with a few members of the community to develop a basic overview of the Jedi Realist Path, in which procedes will filter into a fund aimed at reducing costs for Jedi Gatherings, as well as trying to find a way tobalance out the current "practical" curriculum discussed at the Force Realists talks with an equally "spiritual" curriculum.

And how is she doing this? Communicating beyond her chain of command, getting out there and talking with others and collaborating. This whole inner communication started out 6 years ago to improve me as a Jedi, then 5 years ago I decided to improve FA, and 6 months later I realized we ALLlneeded it, so this is what I have been doing over the last 4 1/2 years, just to get to the point I am at now with the two orders I help run, and two orders I have very little influence over their administration. TOTJO can EASILY do the same, and in less time because of the leaps and bounds we have made in the last 3 years as a community. As leaders, is it not your responsibility to leave this order better than what you found it?

I can name at least 7 members of this order that understand what I am saying, because they have made an effort to get out there and meet us either online or off. I would like to add names onto that list for the betterment of this order and the rest of the community.

Is it wise to engage in "he said/she said/they said ..." or worse "he/she/they 'think' ..." ?

It seems to me that one of the very first of our lessons is to play well the game of black and white, or if you would, 'us' and 'them' ... (Am I mistaken ?)

Certainly, we cannot really get out of the game, but do we have to so painstakingly defend ourselves ? TOTJO is a fellowship (so far as I have come to believe), although not a particularly perfect one. Will it ever be ? Should we try to be ?

Aren't our lives to be guided by the Codes, the Teachings and above all by our disposition to align ourselves to the will of the Force ? (excuse me, ren, I know we disagree on this) If it is, then it is in the will of the Force, no matter how particularly disagreeable we may feel something to be in our egos. We cannot really be threatened if we disallow the exaggeration of defining ourselves by the 'us/them' ...

It isn't time to get out the lightsabres just yet ...