And you wonder why we don't always want to make outside contacts...

http://www.alternet.org/belief/us-vs-them-simple-recipe-prevent-strong-society-forming?paging=off


"Us vs Them": A Simple Recipe to Prevent Strong Society from Forming

AlterNet / By James Rohrer


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Kit, this IS directed at you:

You aren't very well known in the community, not like Hannigan is (I dare say more people know Hannigan than Spark Vallen at this point, and better than Opie MacLeod...the only other name than either of these two is Adam Yaw (and even then, only a select few have the privledge of having worked with him). What you say isn't always going to be seen by the people that know your history, so the perception by the vast majority of the community is going to be skewed by how little interaction they have with you.

The vast majority of people on the Jedi Church don't know you the way that I or anyone else that has interacted with you for more than 3 years does. This is true of any Jedi Leader:

When we communicate we must be aware of how new personnel percieve our words. Especially when typing.

Length of standing in the community doesn't mean that you should be automatically understood....

As one who has been in the community, one should realize the weight of their words, and the possible ways in which that could be perceived....

You know why I'm so wordy? To make sure my thoughts and intentions are clear...

When you post things like that on a publicly accessible venue, someone who is new to the community, yet might agree with much you say, may also form a bias toward us...

If I speak ill of another community, it is in private... I seldom do speak ill of anyone, including my ex-wife...

Usually, I leave it at a simple "I don't agree with exactly what they (do/say), but, it works for them..."

I hope you see what we are saying....

Also, to derail that thread, would have been rude... And as facebook is setup different, ya just can't open another thread and discuss without joining the group, which is what I did.... (shout out to Althea for the approval... I promise to wipe my feet in the way in...lol)....

However, knowing you browse the other sites, and as I've seen Mindas here lately, it gives you a chance to explain how you meant what you said....

++++++++
Reaching out to the other sites is tricky, and part of your problem Kitsu, IMO...

To stay active in the community, your site gets neglected... Whereas to take care of your site means you don't get to interact as often with the community, catch-22...

TOTJO stays to itself to improve ourselves...

This is the goal, right? To improve ourselves, and in the process of making ourselves better, helping to improve everything around us?

What's Buddha say? "What you are on the inside, so you will be on the outside."? Ah well, someone said it... lol...

When our members decide its time for them to branch out, like Akkarin/Michael Kitchen and Aceboizor/Maria, and War Beauty/Perris, have done, then we will....

But, we are trying to make the best darn website we can...

If our site so deplorable, join us, become a regular contributor....

Help us to make ourselves better...

Become the "Magi" SIG advisor...

So maybe you don't wanna go through our training, take our Oath, that's ok, as you know, all opinions are valid (shushes Alexandre, , I still have not got back to you on our conversation....)...

We have a couple if threads concerning things folks would like to be changed.....

But, you might be known in the community, so is Hannigan, would you say that's good company? How about Althea? Some would say yes, some would say no...

You have to post here, to be known, here... to keep responding to all of these sites, and facebook groups and whatever, splinters the Jedi (or whatever) ideas/philosophies/paths/groups/sites/whatever....

So, instead of unity, we get diversity... Not diversity, but I think you get me... lol..

Althea, also known in the Community, has begun our training... I honestly cannot wait to see where she helps steer us... When/if she becomes one of our teachers, and incorporates her life's lessons into our fold....

(I don't know if you are still Althea, but I hope so for this reason)

Hannigan too... All, well no one should just have the title if blah, blah... (blah meaning you get me, I'm not typing Hannigan's philosophy out, even if i understood... lol... Hi buddy!!... not an insult to him...)

I think he coulda brought a great deal to TOTJO...

But the training isn't to his taste... lol...

So be it...

Your whole stance on this post, to me Kitsu, is one of, "well I didn't do anything wrong, so deal with my opinion"...

Hows that work with your physical friends? Hows that work with new people you meet? On and offline?

Do you apologize for misunderstandings there? Where you can be visually seen, heard, and body language read?

My, and I believe GM Mark's, points are that the perception of what is read came across rude, and anti-TOTJO...

"I am responsible for what i say, not what you understand"

Is great, but, for the sake of friendships, most people also temper that a bit with excessive politeness...

Just my thoughts....

I am still doing the initiates training, it's taking me longer than I intended, but It's been difficult juggling Makai. I'll get there...also, at some point I need to talk with someone about taking the full course...I have offline Jedi obligations that may prevent me from becoming a full fledged knight and/or minister here...so I need to be sure I understand some things before proceeding beyond the initial training program...

For me, I had this summer to take care of as much "bookwork" as possible. I can spend the school year participating in discussions and do "physical" (as in practical, real world) training. It's all about rationing time. We all have to find our way and make sacrifices dependent on how we work with others and what our goals are. The main problem with inter-group communications, in addition to Jestor's comment, is that we have to choose our focus. It's like my theatre teacher told me: "if you want to do something really well, you cannot do everything."

I think that if we were to recognize this, then we wouldn't have any issue with other groups focusing on themselves. We wouldn't be worried about unification because we realize we are just different. That's all. I don't need to be told, anymore after a decade of learning, what Jedi is. I have a definition. I am willing to change that if I learn I have not found truth. But, to be honest with you, I think I've found it.

Kitsu, you feel like you've found a level of truth in yours too.

Ally, you as well.

John and Jestor and Mark, you have each found yours.

Is Buddhism or Christianity any more effective of methods to reach enlightenment? No. They are both fine ways.

But, they are just completely different.

And: you shouldn't blame the method for being unsuccessful: blame the people who don't actually follow it from the inside out.

Although I got what you mean, "unification" is not the combination of sites, nor everyone at one site... Just clarifying for anybwho misunderstood...

It common goal of evolving into better versions of ourselves, and helping others to do the same....

Our "unification" should be one of respect and tolerance... Unification of brother/sisterhood... Of specie....

Common goals, not the classifications of who is what (or isn't what)...

The classifying is what led to the splitting of us from the planet...

By doing this, we are only repeatingvthe cycle...

Exactly.

Jestor, I'm here because I met some really cool people at the Gathering (and because there is occasionally discussion of martial arts or firearms). hahaha

I can see where the religious structure of this place could be off-putting to some. I don't remember seeing any kind of religious structure in the books or movies (though I admit I only half-read a couple books), so it seems out of place. The lack of physical training direction is also confusing to me. That being said, you've got a structure that obviously works for you guys. You've got quite a crowd, and a coherent structure, which is a lot more than most sites have. So, I choose to not dwell on the parts that I don't get and instead focus on areas where we agree or can come to some kind of mutual understanding.

Regardless of what you're looking for, you'll always find it; things to agree with or things to disagree with.

Just to chime in here and clarify something (as well as to expand on what Mark previously said about clerical training)...

Here we have a difference between being ordained and just being a minister (I say 'just' but it is still a great commitment!)

To be even eligible for clerical training you must be the rank of initiate which, as Mark said, can take up to 6 months. Sometimes longer and sometimes shorter. But to be ordained as a minister requires that you do those two separate training schemes as well as hold the rank of knight

In short being an apprentice takes at least 6 months, and very often much longer so it could very well easily take you over a year of training (even longer) before you are ever ordained

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#14

Just wanted to clarify how we differentiate our clerical ranks (nothing more)

Very well spoken MindasArran. Thank you.