And you wonder why we don't always want to make outside contacts...

Yes, sir, on that account you are correct, and I wholeheartedly, agree....

The martial arts forums, and self defense, guns, first aid... Are the physical side of being a good, healthy well rounded human...

Half body exercise, half brain exercise....

I am a martial artist too, and, although I do not own any guns, do see the reasons for them... Not to mention first aid and any other thing you can probably name...

That, the physical side, is where the internet fails... And thus the need for the get togethers, and as we say here, local chapters....

Most forums I've seen have at least one thread on a physically existing location, and/or get togethers....

I have to practice the physical stuff on my own currently, as I've not yet found, nor hooked up with, any Jedi, (heck, justcdome like minded people disregard names...

Someday...

Not to name drop or anything, but the Institute of Jedi Realist Studies has what seems to be a great way to "practice the path" offline. In saying this I am not saying that we do not practice the path offline, I'm saying that this is one of the forums I have seen integrate it into their training.

Rosalyn J wrote: Not to name drop or anything, but the Institute of Jedi Realist Studies has what seems to be a great way to "practice the path" offline. In saying this I am not saying that we do not practice the path offline, I'm saying that this is one of the forums I have seen integrate it into their training.

Please tell more about it.

http://instituteforjedirealiststudies.org/training/current-courses/40-introduction-course

I wish I had time to type something up on this (since I helped with the development of the intro course revisions and such), but I'm off to see a musical. So it will have to wait. I'm sure Roz will explain it fine. THOUGH, If you download the intro course pdf file at the bottom of the page, you will find the Integrative Practice Hours instructions.

Akkarin wrote: Just to chime in here and clarify something (as well as to expand on what Mark previously said about clerical training)...

Here we have a difference between being ordained and just being a minister (I say 'just' but it is still a great commitment!)

To be even eligible for clerical training you must be the rank of initiate which, as Mark said, can take up to 6 months. Sometimes longer and sometimes shorter. But to be ordained as a minister requires that you do those two separate training schemes as well as hold the rank of knight

In short being an apprentice takes at least 6 months, and very often much longer so it could very well easily take you over a year of training (even longer) before you are ever ordained

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/faq#14

Just wanted to clarify how we differentiate our clerical ranks (nothing more)

Well reminded, Akkarin. I started to describe how people could become Licensed Ministers then got distracted before going on to list the additional requirements for ordination. Thank you for filling in the gaps

Haha spoke with Jax and she says its best to download the course and read the write up. That also allows you to see the other aspects as well. By that I mean the other classes and such. However, you can only access it as a registered member. So, if any one has accounts there then they can download it. Its really to indepth to explain and still do it justice.

As it stands, we at TOTJO have yet to reach an agreement on what are the "best" forms of physical training. Take martial arts for example. Each member will have their own view on which one is more effective, more appropriate, or more "Jedi"-like. Then there are such things as exercise plans, diets, combat techniques, etc.

We currently provide a lot of information on various physical pursuits through the discussions here. We leave it up the individual to decide the physical training that they want or require and will support them in any way we can. Anyone is free to ask others for their advice. We have found that this works well so far in that people are free to choose whatever systems are appropriate for them and there is no danger of someone's personal routine being considered "inferior" simply because it isn't included in an official set of instructions. Our way also encourages self-discipline in that people have to find sufficient motivation to research and continue an appropriate practice.

We are also more than happy for people to suggest their own ideas so that those who want to follow them, can. As Jestor has pointed out, the mechanics of meeting offline to train together are a nightmare to even consider so we haven't done much about it yet. Having said that, we do have offline chapters of TOTJO that meet in person and train together so it's not as if it's an impossibility.

As for the religious side of things, we are primarily a Church. Although inspired by the Star Wars movies, we do not strictly follow those ways because they are, after all, fictional. We choose to explore and dedicate ourselves to the Force in the way defined by our Doctrine and by our methods. But this is not obligatory. If members want to join in with services, read sermons, etc they can. If they want to do the training with a more secular outlook, they are free to do that as well.

MindasArran wrote: I can see where the religious structure of this place could be off-putting to some. I don't remember seeing any kind of religious structure in the books or movies (though I admit I only half-read a couple books), so it seems out of place. The lack of physical training direction is also confusing to me. That being said, you've got a structure that obviously works for you guys. You've got quite a crowd, and a coherent structure, which is a lot more than most sites have. So, I choose to not dwell on the parts that I don't get and instead focus on areas where we agree or can come to some kind of mutual understanding.

I think that seeing the religious structure as being 'out of place' is part of seeing Jediism as heavily connected to the movies. Which isn't to say that there is anything wrong with doing so, but to me, the religious structure cannot be out of place because we are not trying to mimic the movies. We are trying to learn more of the Force, whilst using other parts of the movies that tie in well - some of the doctrine, the 'ranking' system, etc.

The same is true of physical training. We are not fictional Star Wars Jedi, hence there is no definitive answer on whether physical training has any importance at all (this coming from a pretty sporty, physically fit person). I think that it is up to the individual to decide what role physical training should play in their Jedi life, and if the answer is 'none at all', I have no problem with that and it is their decision to make.

It does interest me that you say that these things 'confuse' you and that you 'don't get' them. I understand and get the opposite views, I just don't happen to agree with them at this moment in time

You should also remember that the IJRS does not preach a certain physical fitness, but it does support DOING some fitness as part of the Integrative program.

Basically you can go to the gym and log hours in a book signed by the manager.
You can go to a dojo and get sigs from the instructor.
Or, you could do it independently and journal (online published) about it. And, they quantify the number of hours you worked and it has to add up (in addition to spiritual and mental training like reading books or watching movies and journaling) to 50 hours for Novice. 100 for Adept. And so on,

The religious structure that puts some off is the same thing that's attractive to others.

I was less than two weeks away from my 17th birthday when Star Wars (no Episode IV - no A New Hope - no books) came out. I remember a world without Star Wars. Many here don't. Early in the movie there's:


VADER
Don't be too proud of this
technological terror you've
constructed. The ability to destroy
a planet is insignificant next to
the power of the Force.

MOTTI
Don't try to frighten us with your
sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your
sad devotion to that ancient religion
has not helped you conjure up the
stolen data tapes, or given you
clairvoyance enough to find the
Rebel's hidden fort...

Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's spell.

VADER
I find your lack of faith disturbing.


Notice the Religion and Faith? Later as the story expanded into the other five movies we see the Jedi had a Temple. I find it strange not seeing The Jedi Path as religion.

What and well what? It still amounts to the truism (because it's true) that if you were me you'd feel exactly the same and if I were you I'd feel just like you.