How is rank about academics and not just a popularity contest?

More
05 May 2019 18:01 #338065 by Tellahane

Br. John wrote: As I type this I'm on page 5 of the posts in this topic. Jabba has 2 posts, the last of which was early on page 1. One of Jabba's posts was on topic.

Here's a Zen story.

Two traveling monks reached a town where there was a young woman waiting to step out of her sedan chair. The rains had made deep puddles and she couldn’t step across without spoiling her silken robes. She stood there, looking very cross and impatient. She was scolding her attendants. They had nowhere to place the packages they held for her, so they couldn’t help her across the puddle.

The younger monk noticed the woman, said nothing and walked by. The older monk quickly picked her up and put her on his back, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other side. She didn’t thank the older monk, she just shoved him out of the way and departed.

As they continued on their way, the young monk was brooding and preoccupied. After several hours, unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. “That woman back there was very selfish and rude, but you picked her up on your back and carried her! Then she didn’t even thank you!

“I set the woman down hours ago,” the older monk replied. “Why are you still carrying her?”


yes....learn to let go....learn to let go of the fact they enforce one rule then abuse it the next moment, learn to let go of the deceits and lies and pr stunts...for this is the jedi way...
The following user(s) said Thank You: Avalon

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 18:12 #338066 by Gisteron

Manu wrote: To answer the original question, yes, rank IS a popularity contest. Worded like that it sounds like a bad thing, so the way I would rephrase it is:

Rank is a matter of TRUST. When you have gained the trust of leadership through consistent display of the qualities they deem as appropriate and representative of a Jedi Knight, THEN you are awarded the rank of Jedi Knight. The academics are a prerequisite, but rank is NOT about academic fulfillment, nor is it about a badge of being “more advanced” on the path.

Rank, as in most institutions (military or civilian) are awarded based on how a person displays both proficiency in execution of tasks and alignment to the values of an organization.

TL;DR: rank is awarded as a responsibility, and thus awarded not based on academic proficiency, but on alignment to institutional values.

That is one way to rephrase it, sure. I'm not convinced that either phrasing reflects rank progression here, though. While enough move up the ranks as they show academic proficiency, or popularity, or moral fortitude of some other nature, enough also move up in spite of - in my opinion - displaying none of that whatsoever. Tales of people losing rank or membership or permission in spite of the profundity of their insight or popularity also come to mind with ease. That TOTJO has values to stand for that make progression - or indeed regression - any more likely is also not something I can confirm. What value are you thinking of specifically when suggesting that?
One can appreciate, I suppose, that any objective measure of proficiency alone may not be the sole deciding factor in ranking - though I find it arguable whether or not it is "in most institutions" - but when it comes to this place in particular I'm not sure anything at all is. Well yes, every Knight of TOTJO has completed an apprenticeship, but what does that mean exactly? What piece of knowledge can one of us name to which another couldn't find a knight who lacks it? What character trait? What ethical sensibility? In a sense the question boils down to what it means to be a Jedi Knight here or a Jedi more broadly. This is part of why I no longer care about TOTJO rank. I'm no longer convinced it stands for anything, that shy of the banner on their profile, there is generally speaking any way of telling the difference between a Master and just any registered user. Is there?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 18:36 - 05 May 2019 18:38 #338068 by Neaj Pa Bol
Too many times are there topics and posts that are repetitive to a nonsense of what appears IMHO, who can post the most; is there brownie points or reward systems for this?

Too much time is spent on debating a + b = c instead of teaching. If as much time were spent on teachings, there might be a more active Knight population to continue on teaching and growing.

Focus should be spent on the studies, not ranks.

Kyrin you focus too much on the woe as me fact of your not getting Rank that for past decisions the Council deemed, “Not Yet”, instead of encouraging people to focus on the precept of being, Jedi. And not just your version of it.

I retired basically due to the BS of the constant crap that goes on here of putting every iota down if one person has an issue.

No one says, “you have to study here”. If you don’t like it, go where you will feel more apt to. Kyrin you have your own place, maybe you should focus on your own views instead of disrupting this place and simple folk looking for their own place in this world whether you feel its correct or not. No one individual person see things exactly as another, one may have common ground and that’s why they join a certain place, but what I thought was suppose to be here was a place that anyone could come and study, to find THEIR OWN Path in life without criticism or put downs. Seems that concept got thrown out in the Bathwater with the Baby…

Choose for yourself, not what others deem for you…


Last edit: 05 May 2019 18:38 by Neaj Pa Bol.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 18:59 #338069 by Gisteron
So, basically, what you're saying is, raising the pinky up high should be more important than actually learning anything of use. Who needs there to be any standards to meet when we can instead just all pretend we do? Wisdom...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 19:36 #338070 by ren

Tellahane wrote:

ren wrote:

Lumella wrote: How intruiging indeed ,

So , Br John and Ren are Jabba the Hut
Rosalyn knew about it because she discussed it with Tellahane , Carlos is in denying of everthing probably because he is the Pastor and loves where he is , desperately trying to get this on topic..


Br John is the founder, ren is a veteran councillor who once used Jabba's "The art of the deal" as an avatar to commemorate the democratic choices of the american people, Rosalyn is the former pastor and councillor, Carlos is current pastor and councillor, and tellahane, member of a clique that enjoys making things up, accusing others of one thing or another, and recently ragequit a second time after Carlos (pastor) unlocked a thread.

Maybe Tellahane can explain how his rank is not just a popularity contest.


Well you got some of that right.

My second "Rage Quit" as you call it was nothing about carlos unlocking a thread I locked, and everything to do about the new "goal" of the temple which was to purposefully keep hostile guests around for the sake of causing hostility and conflict so that knights and other ranking members could be "seen" defending its membership as a PR stunt. The moment that became a thing was the moment I left the administrative position. Not one part of that plan follows the teachings here and I do not support it or the administrative decision to do it, and I will not serve a temple that intentionally allows hostility of its members for the sake of "looking good".

"Jabba The Slut"'s account was banned by me during my tenure as "Assistant Site Admin" when several reports came in about inappropriate content and posting etc. The account's IP didn't match anyone so just like most bans of that type, never thought of again. Then sometime a year later, while I was the actual server admin, the account suddenly became un-banned and started posting in a very specific heated thread, just out of nowhere. IP address was different then before but again no matches, so I did some digging. Turns out joomla has a log for all administrative access stored in a php file not a log file, guess what I found ren? The account was unbanned by john(with not council votes no posts no pardons no nothing), and shortly after that logged into by an IP address reversing to a location affiliated with john, and posts popped up. The account was re-banned I screenshoted all of the evidence, and as ros was john's closest ear at the time I approached her to talk to john about it, and it ceased again...

Now just a few days after I'm no longer admin, ren has taken back over, the account re-surfaces again just after above agenda is put into place? come on it's not coincidence...so yeah I'll call out the obvious BS...


So in other words, the only link between me and that account is it has been used twice while I am admin. Much like it was used twice while you were admin. I note you did not accuse yourself of controlling the account.

since the vote moved from council to knighthood being a much bigger pool of people, its less so.


Because it involves more people it is less of a popularity contest?

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 19:42 #338071 by Carlos.Martinez3

Gisteron wrote: So, basically, what you're saying is, raising the pinky up high should be more important than actually learning anything of use. Who needs there to be any standards to meet when we can instead just all pretend we do? Wisdom...


And here at Tojo - here is the hardest part to learn - self reflective and self paced. What even harder is how to apply a standard that’s not really standard nor can be measured. How do you measure character or actuality in a place that has no walls and is basically - take your word for it type of thing. Honor based is the toughest to gauge - especially when looking at others to gauge ourselfs. Results will vary is said quite often the intended results yet is the most difficult to apply to academics in places such as this. One lesson can be given and pasted or posted same hour - day- week - year... so on and yet, there’s no way to tell if some ones been hard at it or not at it. If, when that’s the focus, It no longer seems to be the ”academic” or the reason for the lessons but something else. Hence ...the frequency of - this type of subject. If our focus is rank then everything will look like a rank issue. If we have a self paced and self reflective center - who really cares of rank? We have rank here. You do what’s asked - you get it. You can claim it - you can earn it - you can cheat it - there are a number of ways to get it and it can even be - fudged-. I can write 750 words per post and seemly not say a thing. So , if you see it as a popularity contest - that’s cool. There are some who don’t. The frequency of some who keep claiming it is have that right as well. Where their balance is and others is - I can’t say but I know where mine is. Self reflective and all that... and that’s what keeps me faithful and pressing forward. Can’t change that for any one else - that’s to them to decide- for themselves. As Reacher said one time ( and I’m totally paraphrasing him) .....so many often enter into a organization or a idea or a place and want to “fix it” from entrance and haven’t taken the time to experience it fully at any length of time... again I’m paraphrasing it and I wish I could find the actual quote but it was in a meeting back in time. My advice or encouragement or even as some see, my side is become a part - put some actual time and effort into becoming a part of things before : you try to bring the house down. If you do that , what will you stand on? Rubble ? Will your achievement be a fuller understanding of your self or just a pile of things on the ground - YOU have brought down?

To each their own and some folk just wanna bring things down - their choice too, but if it helps - that’s my 2 cents. Lend me a 1$ and a dime so I can share a coffee with ya?

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 19:42 #338072 by ren

Neaj Pa Bol wrote: Kyrin you focus too much on the woe as me fact of your not getting Rank that for past decisions the Council deemed, “Not Yet”, instead of encouraging people to focus on the precept of being, Jedi. And not just your version of it.

I retired basically due to the BS of the constant crap that goes on here of putting every iota down if one person has an issue.

No one says, “you have to study here”. If you don’t like it, go where you will feel more apt to. Kyrin you have your own place, maybe you should focus on your own views instead of disrupting this place and simple folk looking for their own place in this world whether you feel its correct or not. No one individual person see things exactly as another, one may have common ground and that’s why they join a certain place, but what I thought was suppose to be here was a place that anyone could come and study, to find THEIR OWN Path in life without criticism or put downs. Seems that concept got thrown out in the Bathwater with the Baby…

Choose for yourself, not what others deem for you…


I too would like to see Kyrin able to find her own path and study without being disturbed, criticized and put down by people who do not come here for this purpose.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 19:46 - 05 May 2019 19:47 #338073 by Carlos.Martinez3
I too would like to see EVERYONE able to find THEIR own path and study without being disturbed, criticized and put down by OTHERS who do not come here for this purpose.

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 05 May 2019 19:47 by Carlos.Martinez3.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 19:51 #338074 by Manu
“Criticism” can actually be extremely constructive, and withholding it extremely destructive.

And what exactly constitutes a “put down” is highly subjective. I’ve seen quite a few people “explode” defensively to something I personally did not find offensive.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sun-gazer

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 May 2019 20:07 #338075 by Neaj Pa Bol

Manu wrote: “Criticism” can actually be extremely constructive, and withholding it extremely destructive.

And what exactly constitutes a “put down” is highly subjective. I’ve seen quite a few people “explode” defensively to something I personally did not find offensive.


Criticism is fine, when used in a positive manner... too much is spent on the negative here....


The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Sun-gazer

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrick