My belief system

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25 Apr 2019 01:00 #337643 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic My belief system

Rosalyn J wrote: In reference to above. Conotation vs denotation I suppose


I don't think so. A person can have a valid criticism, but criticism need not be valid for it to be criticism.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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25 Apr 2019 16:56 #337658 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic My belief system
@Kyrin
Why would the OP put it in Abrahamic studies when the Open Discussion forum purports to be a discussion on Jediism and this is the form that his takes? I don't see the logic in suggesting putting the post in the wrong forum to the question of it being (arguably not) in the wrong forum. "Open" in the context provided simply means one can post about Jediism "or anything else". It does not make any suggestions or assumptions about rules and decorum or posts are allowed to be offensive, abrasive, or include personal attacks. And yes I mentioned the word "lazy" because it was directed at the OP in reference to his research. Also, hard to call someone's idea "garbage" or anything like that without it equating to a personal attack by relation.

Also, I never accused you of anything in this thread. If you look back at what I said I was speaking in general terms. I do this specifically so as not to point the finger at anyone. If I talk about you it's either a compliment or a direct response to something that's made to be about you. My statements here were about preventing such things in general. Open Discussion shouldn't mean these things are permissible and the OP should have some control over the direction of the topic that they started; open or not.

They can be just as offended as they like. I see no reason why my opinion of a subject matter would be any less valid than theirs.


Easy answer. Because their beliefs aren't about you. Our collective ideas and opinions are completely invalid to someone else. The difference is, he said "this is my belief system" as in his, not yours. That's why your opinion doesn't matter; because he wasn't asking us, wasn't asking for permission, wasn't presenting a problem to solve, wasn't seeking critical analysis of its validity. He was merely "telling us" something interesting. That your opinion can absolutely be less valid is a point I'll give more evidence for later in this post.

You see Christianity in general is rather offensive to me and yet I can still have intelligent discourse and even be friends with Christians because I don’t confuse the individual with the idea.


Hmmm... I'm mostly in agreement but for me it depends on what "parts" of Christianity you're talking about. People like us find it hard to cherry pick or allow others to do so. But in reality this is something that most Christians already do to some extent. They take the good parts and that becomes their version of Christianity and they'll make no distinction between their version and what we would call Christianity, being inclusive of all forms. With belief it is more a matter of perspective which is subjective. Christianity isn't a pizza place that only makes one pizza. People choose their toppings, but the crust is Jesus. And Jesus, regardless of his own beliefs, would have been forced by his culture to conform his ideas to the box of Judaism or else no one would listen and maybe even stone him. So with religious teachers and history its never black and white. It's a mix of politics and culture and upholding myths that other people believed just because its now "canon". The kind of truth seeking that underlines your intellectual style, though honest, sincere, and logical, isn't totally compatible with the murky waters of faith. And I'm saying this because the same is true for myself. I only get around it by casting myself into the shoes of a believer and trying to understand their belief through their eyes. Because it's a "personal walk". And because it's personal (to them) it's hard not to take it personal if you're going all in on what they personally believe or follow. It doesn't mean anything to you which is why you can talk about the idea even though you don't mean to talk about that person. However, in some ways that person cannot be separated from that idea.

Take me for example. I'm black. I'm not actually the color black. That would be almost impossible. Technically speaking, I'm brown. But I'm still black because black is not just an idea that can be technically wrong, but it is also a shared identity. Does race actually exist? Biologically it doesn't and yet it does because we say it does. So someone could try to tell me I'm not black because racism is a fictional construct, but whatever it started as it now has a life of its own and one that I get to own and define however I choose. All beliefs are like this. They are not static but constantly in flux.

I can discuss ideas such as Christianity and still go have a beer with the individual that I otherwise admire, trust or even love. That is where I draw the line, so many others can’t even see this line though. That is the real issue.


Seeing that line comes from having a relationship with you. I hope to count you as a friend one day. Should that day come I'm sure you'll clearly know that nothing I say to you is intended to hurt your feelings. You'd know that because of our history. Without that history you're just guessing or making assumptions. Of course I actually don't intend to hurt your feelings because I do respect you and do hope to become friends one day. But without that, I don't know if everyone having that conversation with you would want to have a beer afterwards. You might. They might not. You have the ability to discuss personal things and separate those ideas from your own ego (at least to some extent). This is a great skill to have but it is a skill, not a "factory setting".

I find his characterization of “guest” as personally quite offensive.


Why? Either what he said was accurate or it wasn't. And if it was posted here in the "open discussion forum" (I'm using your logic not mine) then it should be no problem, right? Maybe he doesn't consider it, in his opinion, to be offensive at all and isn't his opinion valid? OR... should he have considered how you might receive that and perhaps not included that bit of extraneous information? And then because you have personal history with each other you can't assume a benevolent motive on his part. And surely you are not a snow flake so there could be nothing wrong with pointing out that you are a guest if that's the case. Right? Because that wasn't offensive to me but I can see how it would be offensive to you. I mean... you're the guest, not me. Likewise, the OP's beliefs are his, not yours. So what may not offend you may very well have offended him.

So maybe it's not about safe spaces or someone melting because of a statement. Maybe there's simply a line that we should all agree is fair and reasonable when it comes to our interactions with people who are not our friends and family. It could be as simple as "let's be considerate."

No reason to burn a cross over it though.


for example... this saying should probably NOT (pretty much ever) be used around black people... you know... just to be 'considerate'. If you can't google something without the KKK being like the TOP 1-10 search results... I dunno... maybe don't use it? Did I get offended? No, but only because I assumed you were ignorant of the possible offense so instead of getting offended I choose to rather take the opportunity to try and simply update your perception. Of course it wouldn't offend you because you're not black and your ancestors weren't intimidated by that form of hate; as it was often a precursor to violence and/or murder. Do I choose to interact with you in spite of this? Absolutely. But would I be wrong to have a more adverse reaction? Absolutely not.

What if it means something different to me than it does to you or Ren? So what? What makes your opinion of what it means more valid than mine? Why do you get to assume the high moral ground in this?


Because this isn't the wild wild west and we should treat others the way we'd want to be treated. In THIS case that means we don't apply our own standards to everyone else. It means if you start a thread its open season based on your understanding of what you're posting being an invitation to any and all types of responses. However, if it's someone else's thread then that thread is based on their understanding of the forum rules, not yours. Your opinions will always still matter, to you. But you shouldn't assume they should always or automatically matter to others.

Example 1: the term "b!tch" is commonly used among many women the same as "girl friend". However... that doesn't mean you (a heterosexual male) can call any woman by that term. It's not the same coming from you. And many women are offended by that term no matter who says it. Same is true for the N-word. These are just a few examples where what YOU mean is not the understanding that is valid. It's about how it is received and when it comes to reception it is the opinion and views of the receiver that matter.

Example 2: Joe Biden. Some people like the personal contact. Some feel uncomfortable. Should he treat everyone the same and simply make people uncomfortable just because it doesn't bother some? Maybe being grabbed by one's genitals doesn't bother some? Should we all go around grabbing each other this way? My "moral high ground" is simply aimed at helping to sustain this, my community. I don't want people to feel unwelcome or be afraid to post in the forums because someone might jump down their throat or "grab em by the predicate". It's a fact that conflict often discourages people from participation. People like you and me? No. But definitely others. So that's why there should always be a line we at least try not to cross because none of us are immune to offense.
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25 Apr 2019 17:24 #337661 by Tellahane
Replied by Tellahane on topic My belief system
After verification, the thread has been locked at the request of the OP. Discussions about discussing belief's in general is fine, but please start another thread about that conversation. Please do not however refer to the original post and the original posters beliefs directly.
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25 Apr 2019 17:30 #337663 by Lenny C
Replied by Lenny C on topic My belief system
I have requested a close on this thread. I have read most of your comments, in fact all of them. This thread was open because I wanted to be honest about my beliefs. I have answered all your questions and also on page 5 put nothing about djedi or any other religions just what I believe the whole truth. My thread has turned into a war of let’s say the difference in what other people believe and don’t believe. That was not my intention for this thread. I was hoping for a bit of openness on what other people believe, but it turned into a let’s heated debate and ended with absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs. So I’m closing this thread.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3
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25 Apr 2019 21:03 - 25 Apr 2019 21:12 #337686 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic My belief system
As pastor of the Temple I’m going to unlock this thread by simply we normally don’t lock threads on request.
I will say this
This reminds me of a story I was told by a very old wrinkly friend.

The rabbit asked for wisdom. Give me wisdom now. His answer was bring
ants , rattlesnake and alligator. Each time he brought them he expected to receive wisdom till he realized it was through the action he gained it, not the request.

Different old man-

A man prayed to help him fall in love with his mate and that week she got on his nerves every day. He prayed again and while In the presence of that and his God he began to realize it’s the moments of upset - grace and love was needed.
We don’t pad corners or even do things for anyone here. This whole place is for self reflect and self paced and learning from one another.

Know your limits and know when what type of action is needed, if any. Find your balance and not every opposition can harm ... maybe it can hone.
Maybe a review of the 16 teaching we have can help often. It’s one of the returns I make often.
We are here to share and learn so please remember who you are and why... you - are here. If you wish to tap out by all means tap out and move on, or - use opposition to learn and try.
I won’t take sides - I try not to but I can recommend to have a balance. I fall often from others picked or shoves but eventually - I walk away or stand up again. It’s on you Temple! I still believe in this place and in every single one of you so , may the Force continue to be with y’all as we seek it ... this is the seek... some times it looks like this some times it don’t but may it find you any where you seek it. My inbox is always open.

Please think and take breaks when needed !


Cites :
Rabbit story
Creek story of rabbit
Prayer for love story
Sermon from Pastor Lee Parton from Faith Bible Church TX
Both messages condensed by me

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 25 Apr 2019 21:12 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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26 Apr 2019 17:11 #337737 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system
@Zealot, Interesting points all around. I would like to make some responses to the following. To clarify, this is neither an argument nor a debate nor a flame war. I see it as quite an interesting discussion on the nature of belief, and the discussion and critique of said belief.


ZealotX wrote: Why would the OP put it in Abrahamic studies when the Open Discussion forum purports to be a discussion on Jediism and this is the form that his takes? I don't see the logic in suggesting putting the post in the wrong forum to the question of it being (arguably not) in the wrong forum. "Open" in the context provided simply means one can post about Jediism "or anything else". It does not make any suggestions or assumptions about rules and decorum or posts are allowed to be offensive, abrasive, or include personal attacks. And yes I mentioned the word "lazy" because it was directed at the OP in reference to his research. Also, hard to call someone's idea "garbage" or anything like that without it equating to a personal attack by relation.



I did not mean to imply anything was posted in the wrong forum. I was simply pointing out that there are specific forums for specific purposes. There is actually a Jediism only forum that is hidden from the public where I would assume that all things Jedi would be discussed. However this forum is an open forum, meaning anything can be discussed and any opinion can be brought forward no matter what. In that sense it is a “wild west” type of forum. That is the very purpose of this forum vs say the spirituality forum where there would be a narrower focus of discussion on topics of, well spirituality! That forum implies belief to be implicit vs this one in which belief would be open to interpretation and critique. That is my take on the nature of this open forum.

As for the use of the word lazy, I think there are very common misunderstandings in word usage and application and this place is rife with it. Calling an idea or a process lazy does not equate to calling the person lazy. Same goes for words like ignorant. If I say that is an ignorant idea, that is not an insult per say. Although in society people will equate it with an insult, it’s really not. It simply means uninformed. And it does not equate to calling the person ignorant, only the idea. We are all ignorant about tons of stuff. That’s why we are here, to help lessen that. None of these words are personal attacks, they are opinion descriptors of ideas.



ZealotX wrote: Also, I never accused you of anything in this thread


I understand your point here. My only point was that it seems irrelevant to bring up something like flame war in a discussion that contained no element of flaming. But I can take your example as a general one.



ZealotX wrote: Easy answer. Because their beliefs aren't about you. Our collective ideas and opinions are completely invalid to someone else. The difference is, he said "this is my belief system" as in his, not yours. That's why your opinion doesn't matter; because he wasn't asking us, wasn't asking for permission, wasn't presenting a problem to solve, wasn't seeking critical analysis of its validity. He was merely "telling us" something interesting. That your opinion can absolutely be less valid is a point I'll give more evidence for later in this post.



If it was not meant to be discussed then why bring it up? Why start a thread about it in an open forum? Why didn’t he just post it in his journal? Anyone can still see it there, he still tells us something interesting and we get the same information but it is also protected from critique there. That’s what the journal forum is for! Posting it in an open forum IS the asking for critical analysis of its validity in my opinion.



ZealotX wrote: Hmmm... I'm mostly in agreement but for me it depends on what "parts" of Christianity you're talking about…

…your intellectual style, though honest, sincere, and logical, isn't totally compatible with the murky waters of faith…

…And I'm saying this because the same is true for myself. I only get around it by casting myself into the shoes of a believer and trying to understand their belief through their eyes…

…It doesn't mean anything to you which is why you can talk about the idea even though you don't mean to talk about that person. However, in some ways that person cannot be separated from that idea.



I’m talking about the institution of Christianity. I would consider all these various aspects you describe as wrapped in a single box called “The Bible”, which is a horribly misogynistic, racist, genocidal, and bigoted book that promotes inequality and suppresses individual freedom through fear and guilt. The ability for people to have faith in any God that would condone such things as moral in any way is one of the most fascinating things I have ever encountered in humanity. So yes my approach is in complete opposition to those murky waters of faith. Because faith is the single most damaging thing to our progress as a species that I can imagine.

I just can’t see anything good coming out of faith that truth can’t provide a better answer for. Sometimes truth may hurt a bit more, but it is an honest pain. That embedded honesty in that pain will cause the greatest individual growth though. So it does actually mean a great deal to me. I walked that path for a long time, that path of faith, by casting myself in those shoes you speak of. I searched deeply over decades for something to truly believe in based on faith. In the end it got me nothing but misery, guilt, anger, a life based on fear and false ideals and morals. And sure, it can produce a sense of comfort, belonging and even at times joy. But all those feelings are based on a falsehood. I never again want to live a life based on lies. I want to belong because that belonging is real, I want to feel joy because the source of that joy is genuine. And I want to feel sorrow and pain and suffering because they are genuine as well. I want to live a life based in reality, not fantasy.

I want to see all of humanity live a life like this because I feel that this is the only way we will ever survive into the future and evolve as a species. So it does matter to me a great deal. My journey to separate false ideas from my person was difficult but also the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. It left me truly free to be who I wanted to be and live how I wanted to live. Everyone should experience that kind of natural beauty in their lives I think!



ZealotX wrote: You have the ability to discuss personal things and separate those ideas from your own ego (at least to some extent). This is a great skill to have but it is a skill, not a "factory setting".


Yes, a skill I think we should all spend more time developing! I believe the first step is in getting rid of faith so that we can begin to see the world and ourselves as they truly exist.

Let me just end this by saying I think this has been a great discussion and I hope that some will get some very productive things out of it! Thanks Zealot and thanks Carlos, for reopening this!

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
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26 Apr 2019 20:54 #337740 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic My belief system
I'm tempted not to respond since I disagree with this thread being unlocked against the wishes of the OP. I'll compromise by stating that I intend for this to be my last post on this thread. Any further discussion will have to be started in a new thread if you would like me to respond. To that end I'll make this response exhaustive.

I did not mean to imply anything was posted in the wrong forum. I was simply pointing out that there are specific forums for specific purposes. There is actually a Jediism only forum that is hidden from the public where I would assume that all things Jedi would be discussed. However this forum is an open forum, meaning anything can be discussed and any opinion can be brought forward no matter what. In that sense it is a “wild west” type of forum. That is the very purpose of this forum vs say the spirituality forum where there would be a narrower focus of discussion on topics of, well spirituality! That forum implies belief to be implicit vs this one in which belief would be open to interpretation and critique. That is my take on the nature of this open forum.


No, it's still not a "wild west" because there are always limits whether stated or not. If I used the "Open Discussion" thread for SEO purposes that would not be permissible. If someone posted nudity or child pornography under the same guise that would not be permissible. So if that is the case, which is a safe assumption on my part, then it isn't the "wild west" and rules do exist. On a philosophical note, in any balanced system, rules always exist even if it is but the rules created by virtue of existence such as the rules of physics. Even "open discussion" is a rule that some will either abide by or exploit for their own ends. I will always recommend more rules as asking Knight to step in because there is intentional slack in the rules is more of a set up, going against the doctrinal maxim of intervention.

"A Jedi intervenes only when a Jedi's intervention is required."

However, if a knight intervenes what stops the poster from simply suggesting that this is an "open discussion" and therefore whatever they say is fair game? In other words, even if you want knights to intervene there has so be some "rule of law" for them to enforce. If there is a rule then intervention is only necessary if a poster fails to comply with the rule and with their warnings. At this point though, the OP, may not feel the need to request the lock. Once an OP feels this need that means that either the rules or the knights have failed to keep order. Either way, that's not the fault of the OP and the thread should be locked per their request. But in order for knights to be part of a mitigating fail-safe there has to be a rule to enforce. Without that the knights would be acting arbitrarily leading to various accusations of overreach.

Think of it this way. In the wild west bank robbery was still a crime. If your argument is that there should be no limitations in what can be said due to the definition of "open" that you'd like then it would be technically illegal to intervene. And yet if we can agree that "knights should intervene" then what is implied is that there is a wrong or crime that they should enforce. If not then there's no reason to intervene at all and any sort of behavior is simply permitted under the banner of "openness". I would choose not to participate in such a forum but then that also unfairly cuts off my ability to have what I consider to be "open discussions" on Jediism and any other topic minus the utter lack of rules and chaos which should otherwise be balanced by the Jedi Code of Harmony.

Although in society people will equate it with an insult, it’s really not.


If you have to explain to someone why they shouldn't be offended then you've already offended them. The intent of rules and guidelines is to protect. If the point of having rules to abide by that speak of not being mean or petty then the intent is to avoid, not simply insults, but people feeling insulted.

"A Jedi does not engage in petty, mean or otherwise dubious activities. Acting with stature and distinction influences others, offering a compelling example of what can be achieved by those who follow Jediism."

Otherwise, its' like shooting someone and trying to explain to them that they just got in the way of your bullets. And if you know enough to know that people in "society" will equate it with an insult then unless the person isn't a member of society you shouldn't assume they wont be insulted or use language that might insult them.

If it was not meant to be discussed then why bring it up? Why start a thread about it in an open forum? Why didn’t he just post it in his journal?


Journals are visible to the public but not meant for public consumption. If I say "Hey Kyrin, it's a really nice day today." I'm sharing my perspective on what kind of day it is but if you disagree it's not really and invitation to debate the weather. Not everything people share is for the purpose of debate. That's really the difference. Carlos actually had a lot of good examples of positive posts in this thread. If a person is posting something they think is positive then it's much less likely they expect negative responses. And if my intention is to share something positive (to me) and more people want to argue about how "nice day" is subjective and how maybe where they are its night time or its raining... I'd be like dude... I'm sorry I said anything. And I would walk away with a very negative impression of the people. And if the answer is "go hide it somewhere less visible" I don't think one should have to do that just to avoid unwanted negativity.

Posting it in an open forum IS the asking for critical analysis of its validity in my opinion.


I'm glad you said "in my opinion" which is inaccessible to anyone else prior to posting a new thread. Hence, the reason why the OP's opinion is the one that should matter when we're addressing their thread. Now if this was clearly stated in a sticky then there would at least be an accessible warning as to the intended purpose of the forum beyond what subjects are in bounds. And then there would be no confusion and no one being expected to read minds which was a feat for even Lucas's Jedi.

I’m talking about the institution of Christianity. I would consider all these various aspects you describe as wrapped in a single box called “The Bible”, which is a horribly misogynistic, racist, genocidal, and bigoted book that promotes inequality and suppresses individual freedom through fear and guilt. The ability for people to have faith in any God that would condone such things as moral in any way is one of the most fascinating things I have ever encountered in humanity. So yes my approach is in complete opposition to those murky waters of faith. Because faith is the single most damaging thing to our progress as a species that I can imagine.


I understand your position completely because I shared it. However, I disagree to the extent that religion is much more of a personal journey than it may appear on the surface. The reason is because IF Christians were following 100% of the bible then you are 100% correct. According to what they would appear to be emulating or using as a guide, they should be worse people for it. And indeed, there were people (still are many) and time periods where this was simply more true. But the secret is that people are the main variable, not religion. People define their religion relative to their own moral character not the other way around. For example, according to the bible a man can have multiple wives as long as he maintains them all to the same living standard. However, most Christians see this as archaic and wrong whether they tell you this or not. They will also fight against abortion because they BELIEVE the bible is against it when in fact they haven't read it to know that abortion was always recommended to save the life of the mother and... was not valued the same as a person who was already born. Most Christians use the Torah as a vehicle to explain how the same God is also involved in their religious practice, not as a way to inform their beliefs and religious practice. That's why I say it's murky. Hitler's Christianity enabled the Holocaust. You can also find photos of catholic priests giving the nazi salute. But Martin Luther King's Christianity enabled the civil rights movement. So you can't count is as solely a problem to be fixed. It can be both good and evil because it (and the bible in general) is a sword and a sword depends on the person wielding it.

I just can’t see anything good coming out of faith that truth can’t provide a better answer for.


I get it. And sometimes it can be a struggle to find positive examples. And do we really want to give Christianity any credit when we consider the "box" versus the people in it? You said that you were able to separate an idea from the person who has it. But you also need to try separating spirituality from religion. One's spirituality is informed and shaped by one's religion but it isn't defined by it. Do you see? MLK was motivated by his religion to strive for something he didn't believe he would live to see. This is an obvious positive benefit that shouldn't escape your calculations. Some of the greatest people who ever lived were religious. And so were many of the worst.

I searched deeply over decades for something to truly believe in based on faith. In the end it got me nothing but misery, guilt, anger, a life based on fear and false ideals and morals. And sure, it can produce a sense of comfort, belonging and even at times joy. But all those feelings are based on a falsehood.


Again... I can't disagree with your experience. Instead, it is rather my point. It's not necessarily what you believe but how much faith you have. In the biblical story of Job... wait this story is ridiculous. However... the reason it is told is because Job refused to give up and his perspective defined his experiences. For believers with strong faith, if something good happens... its God. Bad? It's the devil (not everyone). But when they feel weak and powerless and cannot believe in themselves, their belief in God sometimes makes the difference and becomes the push they need to keep going. This will not work for me which is why I envy Lenny. Being able to believe can be a very powerful mental tool. He understands this. He didn't say it in the beginning because he wasn't "asking" whether or not his beliefs were accurate. He was telling us what works for him. His own religion. That's what makes it his own; what he adds to it. Again, I envy Lenny for this ability because at the end of the day it isn't WHAT you believe. It's how strongly you believe. If you strongly believe in yourself you can overcome many obstacles. But if you believe you can't do all the things God can then you're automatically limited in what you believe you can do. So when people believe in God they can go past the natural limitations because God can do anything. Biblical history isn't taken that seriously to where you could make them stop believing by debunking Noah's ark or some other myth. It's not about the story. It's about the belief. The belief is the POWER. Just like it's not about your job. It's about the money you make by working. That's the power.

"luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" - Master Yoda

I want to live a life based in reality, not fantasy.

I want to see all of humanity live a life like this because I feel that this is the only way we will ever survive into the future and evolve as a species.


I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Dreams are part of reality. Therefore the nature of reality isn't found in what you see. If all I saw was reality I wouldn't be inspired to be the man I am today. Truly. Growing up I was inspired by mythical knights and samurai. I wouldn't be me (who is real) without them (who are not). Jubei... Yoda... Luke... Anakin (as tool of understanding light vs dark), Kenshin, Ichigo, Goku, Morpheus, Neo, Trinity, and many others, all used in artistic form to tell a story in which one can find deeper meaning or something to aspire to. I don't even know if I would want to live without these things. And no, though I'm not a Christian... I honestly wouldn't be me without Jesus. We are a collection of all the people and ideas that inspire us. This is why Luke tells Rey that all of us are with her. Rey imagines the things she can do partly because of the mythical stories she heard about Luke. If it weren't for dreams and ideas that weren't real, we wouldn't be able to evolve or invent things that don't already exist. There is natural beauty in life that shouldn't be ignored (forest for the trees) but one should seek balance in all things; including reality and imagination.

Yes, a skill I think we should all spend more time developing! I believe the first step is in getting rid of faith so that we can begin to see the world and ourselves as they truly exist.


Faith is simply the "Evidence of things unseen". Without faith you wouldn't attempt anything that you haven't already attempted or done which includes crawling and walking. The world that truly exists is also the world that we are constantly creating. And we're creating based on our beliefs and imagination. Do you know why racism still exists? Largely because people who are afflicted by this viral idea can't imagine a world in which all humans are equal and able to survive by working together. So, like in a prison yard, they group with those who they think will most likely protect them. On the other hand... Martin Luther King had a dream and spent his life fighting for it. Getting rid of something you don't agree with doesn't necessarily make things better. Sometimes the only way to make things better is through acceptance... or synthesis. You take reality and fantasy and balance yourself in between so that you can get the benefits of both. But if you think of one as wrong then you simply cut yourself off from something that could be a source of greater power.

I too have enjoyed the conversation but again wish to respect the wishes of the OP.


May the Force be with you.
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26 Apr 2019 21:06 #337741 by ren
Replied by ren on topic My belief system
If it means this much to you and the OP we could remove all his posts.

The right to discuss thing heard, read or witnessed is not just protected by the totjo doctrine, but by numerous laws, constitutions and international treaties worldwide.

Copyright law allows us to freely use copyrighted material for the purpose of commentary and research. If we are hosting a copy of that article but not for the purpose commentary or research, we should delete it.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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26 Apr 2019 23:42 #337748 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic My belief system

Tellahane wrote: After verification, the thread has been locked at the request of the OP. Discussions about discussing belief's in general is fine, but please start another thread about that conversation. Please do not however refer to the original post and the original posters beliefs directly.


Locked as requested. Please follow the above guidelines for further discussion.

Founder of The Order
~
I am the Master Cylinder and I live on the moon.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Tellahane
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27 Apr 2019 01:10 #337751 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic My belief system
Be it know - we support one another in council and hopefully by example - the Temple. This thread had no violation of terms or name calling nor was it any judicial thing or anything like that. It has been locked by request of OP. We can respect that decision and continue to be. Thank you for your understanding any questions you know how to get ahold of me.

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
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The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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