My belief system

I would use rune stones to help define future past present and other more Wiccan rituals with the runes.

What do you mean by "define"?

Rosalyn J wrote: I've read this thread in bits and parts. I wanted to address something. There was a comment that "the brain doesn't care whether tje data it has is right or wrong". I would disagree and state that it is difficult to separate brain from id or ego and its why we have debates, games of one upmanship and the feild of apologetics.

As I say, I am still a Christian and proud. I do not need to debate my belief with another person or have my belief debated with me. My belief extends itself in my practice of how I live my life as much as I can according to the teachings of Christ

Let me say it another way.

When I say the brain I'm talking about the "hardware". When I talk about the mind I'm more so referencing the "software". Does that make sense?

In your PC the hardware doesn't judge the data it holds. Images for example. The images on your PC mean something to you, specifically to your mind as opposed to your nervous system. You have process the light signals before the image is even right side up. The PC has a layer of control (OS) that can move data around while the PC has "higher functions" that utilize the low level interface to manipulate the data and use it in different ways. You might remember DOS which is now hidden within Windows.

The brain is hardwired, forming connections between neurons. These neurons work together to create intelligence and memory storage, but it is the intelligence and its ego (software) that care about the memories. Like a hard drive that is trying not to get full, the brain will drop connections to unused or less used neurons. These memories may have meant a lot to you (ego) when they happened but not to the hardware storing them. So if you don't remember it from time to time you can lose it. My memory is particularly craptastic but like most people really bad memories tend to stick. However, like other people, I can also disassociate bad memories as well.

There are even techniques for erasing memories. But all this is based on manipulating the "hardware" of the brain.

The id or ego is the part that definitely cares and defends its world view (composed of many memories) based on its judgment of its relative truth. The "hardware"; however, will defend memories simply based on the wiring. The more wires... the less likely that memory will go away.

As I say, I am still a Christian and proud. I do not need to debate my belief with another person or have my belief debated with me. My belief extends itself in my practice of how I live my life as much as I can according to the teachings of Christ

Christ was a brilliant Jewish reformer. Even though he didn't reform Judaism his teachings are able to stand on their own. I've criticized Marcion in the past but I actually think he had the right idea by basically ripping out the OT from his bible. Like Lenny, it helps for people of all religions to have some kind of unbroken chain linking them to the ancient past. In Judaism the difficulty was that you HAD TO include the 'forefathers' and their stories and their version of God if you wanted to have any religious influence. Those that want to go back to the beginning are usually those who want to establish a divine connection to the Creator. Every religion is subject at some point to corruption and it was only after the death of Christ that this happened and technically it didn't really happen with his followers but rather people claiming to follow him which isn't fair to make him responsible for. Christians created themselves, using Jewish history and culture where it suited them. Everything doesn't actually line up which is why Jews of the modern era rarely ever convert to Christianity. So again... the "borrowing" of religions as it were, was a common thing both then and today. All it takes is for one to see value. I wouldn't call myself Christian but I still follow the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus), simply because he was a great teacher with very valuable lessons. Most of the corruption and darkness that comes with the religion is due to its OT roots and the takeover of the Catholic church. Point is... I see no reason NOT to pick and choose Christ out of the bible in similar way that Lenny has picked and chosen djedi and other references he connects to the Force.

Each rune has meanings and or yes and no answers. The reason I stopped , as I said in an earlier post , I stopped believing in the magic that I was doing and believed in. The magic was pointing me in a direction to believe in the results not the ritual of the magic.

Raxicorico wrote: Instead of criticizing and mocking (which there has already been waaaay too much of from what I've already read), we should be taking this new set of experiences with an open mind and building on our present way of thinking.

There has been too much mocking here? I find this statement fascinating because I have seen no mocking and very little actual criticizing. This seems to be a common bias among the membership at this temple. People always assuming so much and actually asking for so little clarification. Let me just be the first to thank members like Zealot, who actually takes the time to get such clarifications without jumping to these sorts of conclusions. I think we should all take a page from his example.

Having an open mind is one thing, but that does not mean we just take in any sort of crap presented to us and use it to build our worldview from. That’s about the stupidest thing we could do because it’s dangerous. It leads to false belief and conclusions based on faith that have no basis in reality. Instead anyone that wants to build an accurate worldview should use the open mind only as a tool in the more important process of critical thinking.

This means not just taking any concept at face value but instead making reasoned judgments that are logical and well-thought out. This way of thinking entails not simply accepting all arguments and conclusions that are presented but rather have an attitude involving questioning and challenging such arguments and conclusions. It is the willingness to search actively for evidence for and against favored beliefs, and to weigh such evidence fairly when it is available or to reject such beliefs if that evidence is not present.

You do a huge disservice to others if you are complacent in this process and otherwise just accepting of all things presented. If you do not have the courage to challenge others and allow yourself to be challenged then why are any of you even here?

Lenny C wrote: Each rune has meanings and or yes and no answers. The reason I stopped , as I said in an earlier post , I stopped believing in the magic that I was doing and believed in. The magic was pointing me in a direction to believe in the results not the ritual of the magic.

The 7 Natural Laws as stated in the Kybalion say that the first law is Mentalism.

Otherwise written as "As a man thinketh in his heart so is the man" The Bible

Or

Our focus determines our reality.

I guess my next question is, how much of rune magick would be something like a self fulfilling prophecy?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Raxicorico wrote: Instead of criticizing and mocking (which there has already been waaaay too much of from what I've already read), we should be taking this new set of experiences with an open mind and building on our present way of thinking.

There has been too much mocking here? I find this statement fascinating because I have seen no mocking and very little actual criticizing. This seems to be a common bias among the membership at this temple. People always assuming so much and actually asking for so little clarification. Let me just be the first to thank members like Zealot, who actually takes the time to get such clarifications without jumping to these sorts of conclusions. I think we should all take a page from his example.

Having an open mind is one thing, but that does not mean we just take in any sort of crap presented to us and use it to build our worldview from. That’s about the stupidest thing we could do because it’s dangerous. It leads to false belief and conclusions based on faith that have no basis in reality. Instead anyone that wants to build an accurate worldview should use the open mind only as a tool in the more important process of critical thinking.

This means not just taking any concept at face value but instead making reasoned judgments that are logical and well-thought out. This way of thinking entails not simply accepting all arguments and conclusions that are presented but rather have an attitude involving questioning and challenging such arguments and conclusions. It is the willingness to search actively for evidence for and against favored beliefs, and to weigh such evidence fairly when it is available or to reject such beliefs if that evidence is not present.

You do a huge disservice to others if you are complacent in this process and otherwise just accepting of all things presented. If you do not have the courage to challenge others and allow yourself to be challenged then why are any of you even here?

In your opinion...

Also before you go accusing the membership of "bias" and "assumption", you are aware you included yourself in that statement, being as you jumped to assumptions about my comment intentionally reducing your experience, I didn't see any attempt on your part to seek clarification as you preached above...so if that is what you truly believe it should be, please practice it first yeah?

Tellahane wrote: Out of the number of times I've been in this situation, that has happened 0 times...perhaps its possible but its nothing like what you may see on TV drama shows...

Well I would say you have experienced a very limited view of the world then. I'm not talking about drama here so I would appreciate you not reducing my experience to a fabricated enactment.

I know my own beliefs. but I joined the temple order to learn about the force. people have had different journeys. By no means am I saying that you should or shouldn’t believe in my journey, you have your own. With history, I mean before proper records were taken, we can not say it is absolute truth, because there are no records taken.
If I said I believe in Greek mythology and my belief system was based on the Greeks, would you have given me the same response as I have had.

Tellahane wrote:
Also before you go accusing the membership of "bias" and "assumption", you are aware you included yourself in that statement, being as you jumped to assumptions about my comment intentionally reducing your experience, I didn't see any attempt on your part to seek clarification as you preached above...so if that is what you truly believe it should be, please practice it first yeah?

ya didnt huh? Maybe you arent looking hard enough. you posted, I replied and you clairified. End of conversation, no need to drag it out further. I wonder why you are yet again bringing this up?

ZealotX wrote: I think Lenny is awesome. Let me translate this for my fellow super Logical thinkers.

Lenny has created his own 'magic' by hacking his own brain. And this is what you're actually supposed to be trying to accomplish through things like meditation.

As I said before, the brain doesn't really care about the accuracy of the data it holds. The mind can be tricked by "magic" which may simply be slight of hand but who cares if everyone enjoys it. On some level Lenny is conscious and aware of what he's doing but he's able to believe in order to gain the benefit of that belief. In other words, he's able to challenge his limitations by convincing his mind that he doesn't have them. This has been done by sages and mystics and people around the world. I absolutely believe in the power of the mind and the ability to do things that are otherwise unheard of based on what you can get your mind to believe. Mind over matter

This sort of Magic is actually the sort practiced by any serious adherent to the craft. The ones that can get past the fluff and floof of harry potter and white light realize that true magic is simply the raising of self power.. or if you like, personal force.

Lenny C wrote: If I said I believe in Greek mythology and my belief system was based on the Greeks, would you have given me the same response as I have had.

Well the fact that its an historically established spritual paradigm you might have gotten slightly different responses. Like for example what exactly you believe about the mythology and how does it incorporate into your life. I think the end result would have still been an inquiry into what you believe and how you feel about it over a regurgitation of a tale of the Titans.

Ok thanks. I realise my journey is the reason for my outcome for my belief system. It’s kind of more a way of the force, like the samaurai have way of the samurai. I hope I have answered all the questions but if you have any please I’m happy to answer them.

I don’t class myself as a Jedi knight. I look at myself as a Jedi consular, one who philosophise on what the force is , where does it come from, history including the starwars cannon. I do not close my eyes to other peoples religions regarding the force. That is why I joined this community to learn from others about the force.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Raxicorico wrote: Instead of criticizing and mocking (which there has already been waaaay too much of from what I've already read), we should be taking this new set of experiences with an open mind and building on our present way of thinking.

There has been too much mocking here? I find this statement fascinating because I have seen no mocking and very little actual criticizing. This seems to be a common bias among the membership at this temple. People always assuming so much and actually asking for so little clarification. Let me just be the first to thank members like Zealot, who actually takes the time to get such clarifications without jumping to these sorts of conclusions. I think we should all take a page from his example.

Having an open mind is one thing, but that does not mean we just take in any sort of crap presented to us and use it to build our worldview from. That’s about the stupidest thing we could do because it’s dangerous. It leads to false belief and conclusions based on faith that have no basis in reality. Instead anyone that wants to build an accurate worldview should use the open mind only as a tool in the more important process of critical thinking.

This means not just taking any concept at face value but instead making reasoned judgments that are logical and well-thought out. This way of thinking entails not simply accepting all arguments and conclusions that are presented but rather have an attitude involving questioning and challenging such arguments and conclusions. It is the willingness to search actively for evidence for and against favored beliefs, and to weigh such evidence fairly when it is available or to reject such beliefs if that evidence is not present.

You do a huge disservice to others if you are complacent in this process and otherwise just accepting of all things presented. If you do not have the courage to challenge others and allow yourself to be challenged then why are any of you even here?

Let me first of all mention that I have for whatever reason misinterpreted what has been said, I sincerely apologize. Moving on...

Unless I'm mistaken, I wasn't arguing for mindlessly accepting everything one hears. I was merely trying to encourage the increased input of experience to allow for the potential of one's own development as a person. Even if you don't agree with Lenny has said, there may still be elements of his post that could help another develop their own spirituality. Personally, I believe that when faced with someone else's beliefs that seem a bit out there when compared to our own, we should make an effort to understand their position a bit more (for me, it was Unarius that presented the greatest challenge). Not only the storyline providing the foundation of their beliefs, but also what potential benefits such beliefs could have for said person. If the belief has positive influences on their life, who am I to tell them otherwise?

The topic of courage is a fascinating one to bring up. As far as I've seen here, the one who has demonstrated real courage is Lenny, as he has opened his heart to the temple, likely with full knowledge there may be some negative backlash (for which I would like to take this time to again thank him for sharing). I'll admit, I am of the opinion that the best way to challenge others is to present either contradictory evidence or an alternative interpretation that ring true with you. Confrontation brings conflict, which only serves to fuel irrational emotions. Other peoples opinions and beliefs are entirely their responsibility, we have no responsibility for them and challenging them through confrontation rarely will result in our intended outcome. Does this mean I lack courage? Who am I to say? By your definition presented above most certainly as I don't post often unless something jumps out to me. My own spiritual journey story is furthermore locked away in the seminary forums and inaccessible to guests. But one thing that is true for my personal beliefs is forcing one's opinions on others does not in itself constitute courage.

@Raxicorico, No apology needed. I agree with your first sentiment in finding value in Lenny post. I have already thanked him for that as it caused my curiosity to be raised enough to do my own research and thus raise my level of knowledge. And in fact most of the focus of this thread has been in better understanding his positions, wouldn't you agree?

We each have mythologies we ascribe to and even live our lives by. These of course intermingle with our subjective view of the real world. Its when these mythologies get mistaken for those realities that they become an issue. And yes we all can take freely of each others mythologies and incorporate various aspects into our own. I have no issue with that. As for the courage to open up about these things, I think any of us that has put a journal on this open temple has demonstrated just as much. And in this process here in this thread there has been no confrontation concerning the OP and I find it curious that you still think there has been some sort of conflict beyond the challenge of ideas here? Why is that? In challenging others we expose ourselves as well so that is also a form of courage just as much as the former.

In any event I find it insulting that you imply anyone here has forced an idea or opinion down another's throat. You are the only one that can define your own courage and by your very definition of your activity here I think you have answered your own question quite succinctly. Who am I to say any different.

@Lenny

I hope you are enjoying your timezone, I have a question that maybe you would like to answer, If not, I will respect your privacy:

What does this system also allows you to do in daily life?

Because we are not Jedi Keyboards, obviously not saying you are or someone


* * *

It gives me comfort knowing the force is with me and fully appreciate and understand what so called magic I have done. Once I was lost in London and I asked the force to guide me. I then had an idea which way to go, so I followed that idea and then saw a sign saying London zoo and I was no longer lost. Just one example of how my belief has helped me.

My advice:

Belief [strike]System[/strike]

Lenny C wrote: I even found in early Israel and some Arab states had believers in the Farr, which literally translates to the force..

This right here is kind of annoying.

CHI
Chinese = is an energy source that is linked to breathing in its original context.
Igbo = is akin to the Greek "Daemon"

BUT
American- But
Polish- Shoe

Iki
Lithuanian - Until
Turkish - 2

Shine (when spelled out in appropriate languages, not in pronunciation)
Japanese - Die
English - Emit Rays of Light

It's the same sounding word, but based on where the language it could have significantly different meanings. It's not a good idea to tie words down to your understanding of them. The word فر (which is the arabic equivalent to our phonetic "farr" is translated as "Fled". But let's take another similar sounding word from the same REGION: فر by pronunciation in Persian isn't "fled" anymore, it's "splendor", "beauty" and in some contexts it can even be "oven".

Just because a word sounds similar, it doesn't mean it's the same word. It doesn't even mean it inspired the word. In all the world, with all of the things we wish to convey to each other, there is bound to be some things we come up with on our own which is similar to another language. You could probably create an entire language from the ground up and there would be a strong possibility that at least one of the words you invent has a corresponding word in another language that is translated completely different from how you put it into your language.

Alethea Thompson wrote:

Lenny C wrote: I even found in early Israel and some Arab states had believers in the Farr, which literally translates to the force..

This right here is kind of annoying.

But why is it annoying that someone believes something different to you, for reasons you disagree with, and especially considering they might define the Force differently to you?