My belief system

Lenny C wrote: If I said I believe in Greek mythology and my belief system was based on the Greeks, would you have given me the same response as I have had.

Well the fact that its an historically established spritual paradigm you might have gotten slightly different responses. Like for example what exactly you believe about the mythology and how does it incorporate into your life. I think the end result would have still been an inquiry into what you believe and how you feel about it over a regurgitation of a tale of the Titans.

Ok thanks. I realise my journey is the reason for my outcome for my belief system. It’s kind of more a way of the force, like the samaurai have way of the samurai. I hope I have answered all the questions but if you have any please I’m happy to answer them.

I don’t class myself as a Jedi knight. I look at myself as a Jedi consular, one who philosophise on what the force is , where does it come from, history including the starwars cannon. I do not close my eyes to other peoples religions regarding the force. That is why I joined this community to learn from others about the force.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Raxicorico wrote: Instead of criticizing and mocking (which there has already been waaaay too much of from what I've already read), we should be taking this new set of experiences with an open mind and building on our present way of thinking.

There has been too much mocking here? I find this statement fascinating because I have seen no mocking and very little actual criticizing. This seems to be a common bias among the membership at this temple. People always assuming so much and actually asking for so little clarification. Let me just be the first to thank members like Zealot, who actually takes the time to get such clarifications without jumping to these sorts of conclusions. I think we should all take a page from his example.

Having an open mind is one thing, but that does not mean we just take in any sort of crap presented to us and use it to build our worldview from. That’s about the stupidest thing we could do because it’s dangerous. It leads to false belief and conclusions based on faith that have no basis in reality. Instead anyone that wants to build an accurate worldview should use the open mind only as a tool in the more important process of critical thinking.

This means not just taking any concept at face value but instead making reasoned judgments that are logical and well-thought out. This way of thinking entails not simply accepting all arguments and conclusions that are presented but rather have an attitude involving questioning and challenging such arguments and conclusions. It is the willingness to search actively for evidence for and against favored beliefs, and to weigh such evidence fairly when it is available or to reject such beliefs if that evidence is not present.

You do a huge disservice to others if you are complacent in this process and otherwise just accepting of all things presented. If you do not have the courage to challenge others and allow yourself to be challenged then why are any of you even here?

Let me first of all mention that I have for whatever reason misinterpreted what has been said, I sincerely apologize. Moving on...

Unless I'm mistaken, I wasn't arguing for mindlessly accepting everything one hears. I was merely trying to encourage the increased input of experience to allow for the potential of one's own development as a person. Even if you don't agree with Lenny has said, there may still be elements of his post that could help another develop their own spirituality. Personally, I believe that when faced with someone else's beliefs that seem a bit out there when compared to our own, we should make an effort to understand their position a bit more (for me, it was Unarius that presented the greatest challenge). Not only the storyline providing the foundation of their beliefs, but also what potential benefits such beliefs could have for said person. If the belief has positive influences on their life, who am I to tell them otherwise?

The topic of courage is a fascinating one to bring up. As far as I've seen here, the one who has demonstrated real courage is Lenny, as he has opened his heart to the temple, likely with full knowledge there may be some negative backlash (for which I would like to take this time to again thank him for sharing). I'll admit, I am of the opinion that the best way to challenge others is to present either contradictory evidence or an alternative interpretation that ring true with you. Confrontation brings conflict, which only serves to fuel irrational emotions. Other peoples opinions and beliefs are entirely their responsibility, we have no responsibility for them and challenging them through confrontation rarely will result in our intended outcome. Does this mean I lack courage? Who am I to say? By your definition presented above most certainly as I don't post often unless something jumps out to me. My own spiritual journey story is furthermore locked away in the seminary forums and inaccessible to guests. But one thing that is true for my personal beliefs is forcing one's opinions on others does not in itself constitute courage.

@Raxicorico, No apology needed. I agree with your first sentiment in finding value in Lenny post. I have already thanked him for that as it caused my curiosity to be raised enough to do my own research and thus raise my level of knowledge. And in fact most of the focus of this thread has been in better understanding his positions, wouldn't you agree?

We each have mythologies we ascribe to and even live our lives by. These of course intermingle with our subjective view of the real world. Its when these mythologies get mistaken for those realities that they become an issue. And yes we all can take freely of each others mythologies and incorporate various aspects into our own. I have no issue with that. As for the courage to open up about these things, I think any of us that has put a journal on this open temple has demonstrated just as much. And in this process here in this thread there has been no confrontation concerning the OP and I find it curious that you still think there has been some sort of conflict beyond the challenge of ideas here? Why is that? In challenging others we expose ourselves as well so that is also a form of courage just as much as the former.

In any event I find it insulting that you imply anyone here has forced an idea or opinion down another's throat. You are the only one that can define your own courage and by your very definition of your activity here I think you have answered your own question quite succinctly. Who am I to say any different.

@Lenny

I hope you are enjoying your timezone, I have a question that maybe you would like to answer, If not, I will respect your privacy:

What does this system also allows you to do in daily life?

Because we are not Jedi Keyboards, obviously not saying you are or someone


* * *

It gives me comfort knowing the force is with me and fully appreciate and understand what so called magic I have done. Once I was lost in London and I asked the force to guide me. I then had an idea which way to go, so I followed that idea and then saw a sign saying London zoo and I was no longer lost. Just one example of how my belief has helped me.

My advice:

Belief [strike]System[/strike]

Lenny C wrote: I even found in early Israel and some Arab states had believers in the Farr, which literally translates to the force..

This right here is kind of annoying.

CHI
Chinese = is an energy source that is linked to breathing in its original context.
Igbo = is akin to the Greek "Daemon"

BUT
American- But
Polish- Shoe

Iki
Lithuanian - Until
Turkish - 2

Shine (when spelled out in appropriate languages, not in pronunciation)
Japanese - Die
English - Emit Rays of Light

It's the same sounding word, but based on where the language it could have significantly different meanings. It's not a good idea to tie words down to your understanding of them. The word فر (which is the arabic equivalent to our phonetic "farr" is translated as "Fled". But let's take another similar sounding word from the same REGION: فر by pronunciation in Persian isn't "fled" anymore, it's "splendor", "beauty" and in some contexts it can even be "oven".

Just because a word sounds similar, it doesn't mean it's the same word. It doesn't even mean it inspired the word. In all the world, with all of the things we wish to convey to each other, there is bound to be some things we come up with on our own which is similar to another language. You could probably create an entire language from the ground up and there would be a strong possibility that at least one of the words you invent has a corresponding word in another language that is translated completely different from how you put it into your language.

Alethea Thompson wrote:

Lenny C wrote: I even found in early Israel and some Arab states had believers in the Farr, which literally translates to the force..

This right here is kind of annoying.

But why is it annoying that someone believes something different to you, for reasons you disagree with, and especially considering they might define the Force differently to you?

He doesn't state that he believes it, he found it through "research".

Jedi seek the truth in all things, do they not?

Training: To know one's ignorance.
A Jedi knows there is always something more to learn and seeks new lessons every day. - 21 Jedi Maxims

He claims to be a Jedi Consular, which means he claims the Jedi Path as a whole. If you're not willing to take in new information and apply it to your paradigm based on the truth of what you see, all you're doing is saying you don't have a care in the world for the person or persons which utilize the information you are bending to your own will. You can hardly call that true respect for others when you take the information and make it something it is not.

Create your own beliefs, but not at the expense of tearing into someone else's deeply rooted culture.

It seems like an unfounded emotional response. Have you read this thread? He says many times its his belief. There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two and define a truth as a limitation on belief. Unless of course they contradict themselves, but in this case that would require it being asserted as a truth. It depends on what the belief is being used for. And obviously applying your definitions of Force, Jedi Consular and the Jedi way or path is not really a measure of another persons definitions being 'true' or 'false' beyond a comparison. Hence why I was curious as to why it annoys you... you don't have to answer of course, but since you posted I thought I'd ask.

I guess there is an argument that syncretism can dilute existing cultures which makes their followers fearful of that, which can lead to anger at the occurrence to syncretism of ones culture. Then we know how it goes, next comes hate and we all go around poking eyes out But syncretism doesn't usually go to define the source culture, but use parts of it to define a new culture AFAIK.

Up to that point, I had not read the whole thing.

I have now. But I tend more towards (ironically) Kyrin's assessment in this thread than anyone else's.

Lenny's beliefs may be beliefs, but they do actually throw the Jedi Path to the curb entirely- because he's not actually looking for the truth. What he wants is something to justify the things he's come to understand in the world and he's finding it in places that want to fit the world into their views rather than taking the world for what it is.

One can form ideas and concepts without making history tell the story the way they want to hear it.

(paraphrased)
"The ancients believed XYZ, I am justified in believing in XYZ, because of them."

That's the ego seeking justification, when it doesn't necessarily need justification.

"I believe in the Force, because I see it all around me" doesn't need to be followed up by "I also believe in the Force, because this ancient group of Israelites believed in Farr" (which btw, isn't true- even in Hebrew it is the same as the first Persian translation).

In saying such, you take away from the Israelites' past. You even miss out on some really good studying if you do this because there might be a real equivalent to the Force in Israelite history that you could be exploring. But instead, you're exploring "splendor", "luxury", "glory", "grandeur", "important"(Aramaic). (in case anyone is wondering, I do happen to believe there is an equivalent in Israelite tradition, but I have yet to find it named, more talked about and around).

You don't need ancestors to tell you what to believe, nor should you be telling them what they believed- respect them and look for the truth; or at the very least leave them be and find your own truth without them. It's that simple, otherwise you do everyone (including yourself) a massive disservice.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Up to that point, I had not read the whole thing.

I have now. But I tend more towards (ironically) Kyrin's assessment in this thread than anyone else's.

Lenny's beliefs may be beliefs, but they do actually throw the Jedi Path to the curb entirely- because he's not actually looking for the truth. What he wants is something to justify the things he's come to understand in the world and he's finding it in places that want to fit the world into their views rather than taking the world for what it is.

One can form ideas and concepts without making history tell the story the way they want to hear it.

(paraphrased)
"The ancients believed XYZ, I am justified in believing in XYZ, because of them."

That's the ego seeking justification, when it doesn't necessarily need justification.

"I believe in the Force, because I see it all around me" doesn't need to be followed up by "I also believe in the Force, because this ancient group of Israelites believed in Farr" (which btw, isn't true- even in Hebrew it is the same as the first Persian translation).

In saying such, you take away from the Israelites' past. You even miss out on some really good studying if you do this because there might be a real equivalent to the Force in Israelite history that you could be exploring. But instead, you're exploring "splendor", "luxury", "glory", "grandeur", "important"(Aramaic). (in case anyone is wondering, I do happen to believe there is an equivalent in Israelite tradition, but I have yet to find it named, more talked about and around).

You don't need ancestors to tell you what to believe, nor should you be telling them what they believed- respect them and look for the truth; or at the very least leave them be and find your own truth without them. It's that simple, otherwise you do everyone (including yourself) a massive disservice.

Don't you think it depends on what that belief is being used for though? If it's motivating one to learn more about those cuiltures then it would seem to be a really positive influence.... the belief is in effect serving as a scaffold to construct an accurate picture, ie a living frame of reference. How one shapes and uses a belief to me is what spirituality is, and its personal because its a 'living aspect' of their focus. To me, the problems only occur when someone starts telling others what is true and what is not.... which has not happened here. And its only when someone starts asserting something as truth that it can be fairly said to be countering that preexisting truth. A lot of Western culture conflates belief with truth because old religions used to define belief as truth... but its not necessarily how belief seems to work IMO... and as Jedi we probably don't let old systems of thinking define how we can best be.

belief noun
be·​lief | \ bə-ˈlēf
\
Definition of belief

1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing her belief in God a belief in democracy I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique. contrary to popular belief
2 : something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed an individual's religious or political beliefs especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group the beliefs of the Catholic Church
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/farrah

As Alethea says, If something is not true, why would a Jedi ever consider it a part of their worldview?

Thank for the link Kyrin. I did read it and was really an eye opener. Like i said having a open mind allows one to look at what they believe and take on board what other people’s thoughts are.
We can all find similarities in all religions, so instead of arguing who is right, we should be talking and identify these similarities in what we believe, for example I have told you all my beliefs and there maybe simulaties in your beliefs.

Here is an example of belief. Maybe this applies to Christian Jedi. Annakin was born according to starwars cannon with no father. The first similarity. But if you look deeper there are more, when Annakin now Vader tells his son Luke to join Him. we could look at this as Christians following Jesus and Being his sons.
At the end Lukes faith Inbringing his father to the light could be interpreted as finding Jesus through the bible. Vader sacrifices himself by killing the evil emperor and thus destroying the evil, which could be interpreted as Jesus sacrifices himself for his sons and daughters on the cross.
Thanks for reading and by know means to I intend to disrespect anyone’s faith. I personally belief that all faiths are personal and individual to that person.

For I am a Jedi consular. So if there is light there must be dark. I look at the force not only with my beliefs but with a open mindset. I judge not. To fully understand something is impossible. we can learn to understand which is not impossible. We can embrace darkness but our light will shine through , for all of us have a belief. But should not be afraid of others who believe something else, you nor they are wrong.

Adder wrote: If it's motivating one to learn more about those cuiltures...

Are you truly learning about their culture if you are looking at the lies that are being spread about them?

You say my belief is wrong because of no factual evidence. That is your individual opinion and I take on board what you say. Would you say to a spiritual medium your belief in communication with dead is wrong because you can’t see the dead.
Would you say some African faiths with God’s that have no books or scrolls saying this is 100% fact because it’s taught generation to next generation and there is no evidence saying it is fact.
Would you say the bible is fact when it has been translated from Hebrew to Greek and then to other languages in which some key points of Christianity could have gotten lost in translation. With every bit of fiction there has to some sort of truth. If you look at most movies. Let’s say you watched lord of the rings, would come out of cinema and say that film was crap non of it was true, or would you come out of cinema saying Gandalf magic against that evil wizard was cool and enjoyed the film.