My belief system

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18 Apr 2019 00:02 #337365 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic My belief system
He doesn't state that he believes it, he found it through "research".

Jedi seek the truth in all things, do they not?

Training: To know one's ignorance.
A Jedi knows there is always something more to learn and seeks new lessons every day.
- 21 Jedi Maxims

He claims to be a Jedi Consular, which means he claims the Jedi Path as a whole. If you're not willing to take in new information and apply it to your paradigm based on the truth of what you see, all you're doing is saying you don't have a care in the world for the person or persons which utilize the information you are bending to your own will. You can hardly call that true respect for others when you take the information and make it something it is not.

Create your own beliefs, but not at the expense of tearing into someone else's deeply rooted culture.
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18 Apr 2019 00:08 - 18 Apr 2019 00:18 #337366 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic My belief system
It seems like an unfounded emotional response. Have you read this thread? He says many times its his belief. There is a difference between having a belief and asserting it as a truth. It would be wrong IMO to conflate the two and define a truth as a limitation on belief. Unless of course they contradict themselves, but in this case that would require it being asserted as a truth. It depends on what the belief is being used for. And obviously applying your definitions of Force, Jedi Consular and the Jedi way or path is not really a measure of another persons definitions being 'true' or 'false' beyond a comparison. Hence why I was curious as to why it annoys you... you don't have to answer of course, but since you posted I thought I'd ask.

I guess there is an argument that syncretism can dilute existing cultures which makes their followers fearful of that, which can lead to anger at the occurrence to syncretism of ones culture. Then we know how it goes, next comes hate and we all go around poking eyes out :D But syncretism doesn't usually go to define the source culture, but use parts of it to define a new culture AFAIK.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 18 Apr 2019 00:18 by Adder.
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18 Apr 2019 00:26 #337367 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic My belief system
Up to that point, I had not read the whole thing.

I have now. But I tend more towards (ironically) Kyrin's assessment in this thread than anyone else's.

Lenny's beliefs may be beliefs, but they do actually throw the Jedi Path to the curb entirely- because he's not actually looking for the truth. What he wants is something to justify the things he's come to understand in the world and he's finding it in places that want to fit the world into their views rather than taking the world for what it is.

One can form ideas and concepts without making history tell the story the way they want to hear it.

(paraphrased)
"The ancients believed XYZ, I am justified in believing in XYZ, because of them."

That's the ego seeking justification, when it doesn't necessarily need justification.

"I believe in the Force, because I see it all around me" doesn't need to be followed up by "I also believe in the Force, because this ancient group of Israelites believed in Farr" (which btw, isn't true- even in Hebrew it is the same as the first Persian translation).

In saying such, you take away from the Israelites' past. You even miss out on some really good studying if you do this because there might be a real equivalent to the Force in Israelite history that you could be exploring. But instead, you're exploring "splendor", "luxury", "glory", "grandeur", "important"(Aramaic). (in case anyone is wondering, I do happen to believe there is an equivalent in Israelite tradition, but I have yet to find it named, more talked about and around).

You don't need ancestors to tell you what to believe, nor should you be telling them what they believed- respect them and look for the truth; or at the very least leave them be and find your own truth without them. It's that simple, otherwise you do everyone (including yourself) a massive disservice.
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18 Apr 2019 00:33 - 18 Apr 2019 00:37 #337369 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic My belief system

Alethea Thompson wrote: Up to that point, I had not read the whole thing.

I have now. But I tend more towards (ironically) Kyrin's assessment in this thread than anyone else's.

Lenny's beliefs may be beliefs, but they do actually throw the Jedi Path to the curb entirely- because he's not actually looking for the truth. What he wants is something to justify the things he's come to understand in the world and he's finding it in places that want to fit the world into their views rather than taking the world for what it is.

One can form ideas and concepts without making history tell the story the way they want to hear it.

(paraphrased)
"The ancients believed XYZ, I am justified in believing in XYZ, because of them."

That's the ego seeking justification, when it doesn't necessarily need justification.

"I believe in the Force, because I see it all around me" doesn't need to be followed up by "I also believe in the Force, because this ancient group of Israelites believed in Farr" (which btw, isn't true- even in Hebrew it is the same as the first Persian translation).

In saying such, you take away from the Israelites' past. You even miss out on some really good studying if you do this because there might be a real equivalent to the Force in Israelite history that you could be exploring. But instead, you're exploring "splendor", "luxury", "glory", "grandeur", "important"(Aramaic). (in case anyone is wondering, I do happen to believe there is an equivalent in Israelite tradition, but I have yet to find it named, more talked about and around).

You don't need ancestors to tell you what to believe, nor should you be telling them what they believed- respect them and look for the truth; or at the very least leave them be and find your own truth without them. It's that simple, otherwise you do everyone (including yourself) a massive disservice.


Don't you think it depends on what that belief is being used for though? If it's motivating one to learn more about those cuiltures then it would seem to be a really positive influence.... the belief is in effect serving as a scaffold to construct an accurate picture, ie a living frame of reference. How one shapes and uses a belief to me is what spirituality is, and its personal because its a 'living aspect' of their focus. To me, the problems only occur when someone starts telling others what is true and what is not.... which has not happened here. And its only when someone starts asserting something as truth that it can be fairly said to be countering that preexisting truth. A lot of Western culture conflates belief with truth because old religions used to define belief as truth... but its not necessarily how belief seems to work IMO... and as Jedi we probably don't let old systems of thinking define how we can best be.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 18 Apr 2019 00:37 by Adder.
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18 Apr 2019 15:27 #337390 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system
belief noun
be·​lief | \ bə-ˈlēf
\
Definition of belief

1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing her belief in God a belief in democracy I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique. contrary to popular belief
2 : something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed an individual's religious or political beliefs especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group the beliefs of the Catholic Church
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence


www.iranicaonline.org/articles/farrah

As Alethea says, If something is not true, why would a Jedi ever consider it a part of their worldview?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
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19 Apr 2019 08:28 #337425 by Lenny C
Replied by Lenny C on topic My belief system
Thank for the link Kyrin. I did read it and was really an eye opener. Like i said having a open mind allows one to look at what they believe and take on board what other people’s thoughts are.
We can all find similarities in all religions, so instead of arguing who is right, we should be talking and identify these similarities in what we believe, for example I have told you all my beliefs and there maybe simulaties in your beliefs.
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19 Apr 2019 08:59 - 19 Apr 2019 09:00 #337426 by Lenny C
Replied by Lenny C on topic My belief system
Here is an example of belief. Maybe this applies to Christian Jedi. Annakin was born according to starwars cannon with no father. The first similarity. But if you look deeper there are more, when Annakin now Vader tells his son Luke to join Him. we could look at this as Christians following Jesus and Being his sons.
At the end Lukes faith Inbringing his father to the light could be interpreted as finding Jesus through the bible. Vader sacrifices himself by killing the evil emperor and thus destroying the evil, which could be interpreted as Jesus sacrifices himself for his sons and daughters on the cross.
Thanks for reading and by know means to I intend to disrespect anyone’s faith. I personally belief that all faiths are personal and individual to that person.
Last edit: 19 Apr 2019 09:00 by Lenny C.
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19 Apr 2019 09:23 - 19 Apr 2019 09:26 #337428 by Lenny C
Replied by Lenny C on topic My belief system
For I am a Jedi consular. So if there is light there must be dark. I look at the force not only with my beliefs but with a open mindset. I judge not. To fully understand something is impossible. we can learn to understand which is not impossible. We can embrace darkness but our light will shine through , for all of us have a belief. But should not be afraid of others who believe something else, you nor they are wrong.
Last edit: 19 Apr 2019 09:26 by Lenny C.
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19 Apr 2019 19:23 #337435 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic My belief system

Adder wrote: If it's motivating one to learn more about those cuiltures...


Are you truly learning about their culture if you are looking at the lies that are being spread about them?
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19 Apr 2019 21:34 - 19 Apr 2019 21:35 #337438 by Lenny C
Replied by Lenny C on topic My belief system
You say my belief is wrong because of no factual evidence. That is your individual opinion and I take on board what you say. Would you say to a spiritual medium your belief in communication with dead is wrong because you can’t see the dead.
Would you say some African faiths with God’s that have no books or scrolls saying this is 100% fact because it’s taught generation to next generation and there is no evidence saying it is fact.
Would you say the bible is fact when it has been translated from Hebrew to Greek and then to other languages in which some key points of Christianity could have gotten lost in translation. With every bit of fiction there has to some sort of truth. If you look at most movies. Let’s say you watched lord of the rings, would come out of cinema and say that film was crap non of it was true, or would you come out of cinema saying Gandalf magic against that evil wizard was cool and enjoyed the film.
Last edit: 19 Apr 2019 21:35 by Lenny C.
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