Why so many people become disappointed with this community

I don't have problem with any guests. I'm so down for the constructive exchange of ideas and learning together. My thank you stemmed from ren's last statement. How do we be constructive and make it work so we learn together. Blame and shame aren't the motivators I favor.

Collaboration and understanding is the glue we need figure this out. Ad homenims aside.

In the future it might be a good idea to be a little more discerning as to who you support and take the time to make those reasons perfectly clear.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ren wrote: Unfortunately some 'guests' have outstayed their welcome and are actively preventing the peaceful practice of our religion in our own temple.

Oh ren, you are my hero for your ability to passively aggressively reach out across the keyboard and slap an entire temple group in the face, your best attempt to aggressively polarize one group against others and start yet another war. Good job Jedi, you are well trained.

And the fact you have supporters like arisaig is no surprise and it seems even new knights like Thomas have been well indoctrinated. And yes I have the courage to identify those people I find disappointment in by name and I also have the courage to face them and work out the issue. Do you?

The only one here who seems to be actively polarizing is you, Kyrin.

I have not been offended as I can easily discern Ren’s intent, and as unapologetic and abrupt as it might sound, he is right in stating that guests can and do interrupt peace here, and unless I am missing some hidden Jedaii power ranger lesson here, I don’t see you doing anything but throwing around accusations and debating things emotionally.

There is a kernel of good in everyone and a lesson in each encounter. I can't dictate another's behavior but I can water and nurture the healthy effort. Expectations and assumptions are such tricky things that often cause stirring and trouble. If you ever need me to expound on anything, simply ask. I'm here to serve.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ren wrote: Unfortunately some 'guests' have outstayed their welcome and are actively preventing the peaceful practice of our religion in our own temple.

Oh ren, you are my hero for your ability to passively aggressively reach out across the keyboard and slap an entire temple group in the face, your best attempt to aggressively polarize one group against others and start yet another war. Good job Jedi, you are well trained.

And the fact you have supporters like arisaig is no surprise and it seems even new knights like Thomas have been well indoctrinated. And yes I have the courage to identify those people I find disappointment in by name and I also have the courage to face them and work out the issue. Do you?

Kyrin - you should know better by now that this isn't acceptable communication here. We discuss ideas, not specific people by name. That sort of argument/debate belongs in Private Messages. While you may feel like ren is antagonizing you and others who you believe deserve your defense, your post in public view is equally antagonizing and not even passively aggressive, but outright aggressive. Take it up with him in private.

Including Arisaig and Thomas in your argument simply because they chose to "thank" ren for his post is also inappropriate. Despite your past history with Ari, you both have admirably managed to avoid confrontation since your return and it should have remained that way. As for Thomas, he has since explained his reaction and it seems clear that it has nothing to do with support of ren or any other individual here, but rather the idea of collaborating in a way that is constructive and allows everyone to learn without distraction. Thomas does not owe you or anyone else an explanation of who he supports or why as his comment is clearly in support of an idea, as is encouraged here in the Temple. If his meaning was unclear to you, you can ask for clarification rather than making assumptions.

I could go on, but you and I know each other well enough by now that I don't believe it is necessary to drag this out further. We can either step back for a moment and consider how helpful this tangent has been to the overall conversation in this thread, or we can go down the same road we've already become way too familiar with. We all know where that ends, so can we all agree not to go that direction again please?

Senan wrote: We discuss ideas, not specific people by name.

We can only discuss ideas instead of people if certain people aren't known solely for the abrasiveness of their ideas. When people make a certain mindset their platform, it becomes important to discuss those people. Especially when those mindsets are harmful to the discourse at large.

I posted what I did simply to resolve misunderstandings and the potential for hurt feelings. I stand by what I posted and wish only to resolve passive aggressive behavior designed as a dig at others. That's my only goal. When posts are made that are designed to segregate groups or individuals from the group that should be addressed.

steamboat28 wrote:

Senan wrote: We discuss ideas, not specific people by name.

We can only discuss ideas instead of people if certain people aren't known solely for the abrasiveness of their ideas. When people make a certain mindset their platform, it becomes important to discuss those people. Especially when those mindsets are harmful to the discourse at large.

Couldn't we discuss the harmful mindsets and associated behaviors without assigning people to them? I believe most of us here are intelligent enough, or at least observant enough, to recognize who it is that could be harming the discourse at large with certain behaviors and we should address that individually in private rather than calling people out on the carpet in front of everyone and then being surprised when they become defensive.

Err...

I doubt ari is a 'supporter' of mine, and if he were, i'd tell him to support ideas, not people... me included...

And when i say "some 'guests'", i mean just that. The guests who behave like guests and whose interests in totjo are found in our teachings rather than a forum 'fight' are very welcome here. I'd love to see them apply for membership (it's free) and pay us a visit in the confrontation-free parts of the site.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Good job Jedi, you are well trained.

Ren will state he's not a Jedi because he's just a member...

My opinion on this whole thing is if you genuinely don't like TOTJO just don't come, its the proverbial horse to water, no amount of telling the horse to drink will make it do so.