The future of the Jedi order

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

CableSteele wrote: I take it seriously. In fact, I would take it a step further. I want to see the Jedi become the official religious figures of Mars. We will colonise Mars one day and if the Jedi religion is established as the only allowable religion, then people will be free to practice their own religious beliefs as long as it's within the bounds of the peace and tolerance of the Jedi religion.
I would rather see Jediism as opposed to atheism as the official religion anyway. And forget about any religion that even hints at shunning the non believers. There are no infidels in Jediism and that's fine with me.

Plus, the Jedi mythology is way more entertaining than any of the others. Well, Hinduism is a close second.

Whaaaaa...???
Although this may be going off topic and might be best suited for a different thread, this seems scary.
You say there are no infidels and yet your previous statements clearly define Jedi Infidels.

The idea I was trying to convey was that religion seems to be an inevitability, (atheism is a belief, like it or not) therefore, a placeholder for these religious tendencies would make it difficult for religious extremism to gain a foothold in society.
I understand that I may offend the more sensitive atheists among us by challenging their deeply held religious beliefs, but as I clearly stated before, as long as you practice your atheist beliefs within the bounds of tolerance and understanding that is preached in the halls of this temple, I see no reason atheism can't coexist with the likes Islam or Christianity. You know, the violent ones.

Maybe a better way of saying it would have been to say that if a person wishes to consciously follow a religion, why not do it with the understanding and syncretic acceptance of a Jedi? If you think that's intolerant, then I would have to ask, why would you even call yourself Jedi?

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

rugadd wrote: Woops!

Klingon, ofcourse! I took it for a form of R'lyehian.

It's all fun and games until someone summons a Great Old One.

QUICK, SOMEBODY LOCK IT DOWN.

Did somebody call for me ? I was out getting the tentacles scraped -- it had been so long ...

... who locked the door ? :S

CableSteele wrote: (atheism is a belief, like it or not)

Nope. Not discussing it here though.

*goes back to tickling Maitre Old One*

a colony on mars is a great idea; we (as a species) have to learn how to migrate through space eventually, might as well start doing it in my lifetime

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

CableSteele wrote: (atheism is a belief, like it or not)

Nope. Not discussing it here though.

*goes back to tickling Maitre Old One*

I started a thread for you on the subject.

CableSteele wrote: The idea I was trying to convey was that religion seems to be an inevitability, (atheism is a belief, like it or not) therefore, a placeholder for these religious tendencies would make it difficult for religious extremism to gain a foothold in society.
I understand that I may offend the more sensitive atheists among us by challenging their deeply held religious beliefs, but as I clearly stated before, as long as you practice your atheist beliefs within the bounds of tolerance and understanding that is preached in the halls of this temple, I see no reason atheism can't coexist with the likes Islam or Christianity. You know, the violent ones.

Maybe a better way of saying it would have been to say that if a person wishes to consciously follow a religion, why not do it with the understanding and syncretic acceptance of a Jedi? If you think that's intolerant, then I would have to ask, why would you even call yourself Jedi?

What "Power" is to dictate to the population of Mars that Jediism is "X" definition and it is to be the "placeholder" as you put it, of all spirituality? Who is to define what religious extremism is? Who is to define what tolerance and understanding means? What happens if these "powers that be" find that someone has violated these definitions? As for atheism, no it is NOT belief or a form of religion or a spirituality or a worldview in any way. In fact it is a LACK of belief - more specifically it is the single default position that until proven otherwise there is no reason to believe that Deity, as defined by any religion, exists.

Beyond that, who said I call myself a Jedi? Jediism is about practicing a syncratic spirituality, meaning seamlessly blending Jedi principles with other forms of spirituality or doctrine or belief. But I don't believe there is any hard and fast rule anywhere stating that I need to call myself Jedi to do this. That very idea takes away from the idea of the syncratic paradigm. I can follow Jedi teachings and still call myself Pagan or whatever else I want. And because I might call myself Pagan there may be aspects of Jediism that I don't follow or believe in or find relevant. As well, there may be aspects of Paganism that do not conform to the doctrine or belief systems of Jedi. Are you telling me I must abandon my Pagan beliefs and practices just because I moved to Mars? Will Martian citizens governed under the State religion of Jediism be persecuted if they have different definitions of tolerance and understanding from that of the State?

Did you have to abandon your pagan beliefs to be a member of this "Jedi" temple? What about to become an apprentice? Do you not consider yourself Jedi?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

CableSteele wrote: The idea I was trying to convey was that religion seems to be an inevitability, (atheism is a belief, like it or not) therefore, a placeholder for these religious tendencies would make it difficult for religious extremism to gain a foothold in society.
I understand that I may offend the more sensitive atheists among us by challenging their deeply held religious beliefs, but as I clearly stated before, as long as you practice your atheist beliefs within the bounds of tolerance and understanding that is preached in the halls of this temple, I see no reason atheism can't coexist with the likes Islam or Christianity. You know, the violent ones.

Maybe a better way of saying it would have been to say that if a person wishes to consciously follow a religion, why not do it with the understanding and syncretic acceptance of a Jedi? If you think that's intolerant, then I would have to ask, why would you even call yourself Jedi?

What "Power" is to dictate to the population of Mars that Jediism is "X" definition and it is to be the "placeholder" as you put it, of all spirituality? Who is to define what religious extremism is? Who is to define what tolerance and understanding means? What happens if these "powers that be" find that someone has violated these definitions? As for atheism, no it is NOT belief or a form of religion or a spirituality or a worldview in any way. In fact it is a LACK of belief - more specifically it is the single default position that until proven otherwise there is no reason to believe that Deity, as defined by any religion, exists.

Beyond that, who said I call myself a Jedi? Jediism is about practicing a syncratic spirituality, meaning seamlessly blending Jedi principles with other forms of spirituality or doctrine or belief. But I don't believe there is any hard and fast rule anywhere stating that I need to call myself Jedi to do this. That very idea takes away from the idea of the syncratic paradigm. I can follow Jedi teachings and still call myself Pagan or whatever else I want. And because I might call myself Pagan there may be aspects of Jediism that I don't follow or believe in or find relevant. As well, there may be aspects of Paganism that do not conform to the doctrine or belief systems of Jedi. Are you telling me I must abandon my Pagan beliefs and practices just because I moved to Mars? Will Martian citizens governed under the State religion of Jediism be persecuted if they have different definitions of tolerance and understanding from that of the State?

Is there anything in our doctrine that could evolve into persecution of non-Jedi? I don't see anything. It seems to me that, as religious beliefs go, the Jedi Way is pretty sterile. There is no penalty for rejecting Jedi beliefs.
China's cultural revolution showed us what happens when atheist crusaders try to forcibly stomp out religion. Rather than have a similar thing happen with the future colonization of Mars, we should allow free expression of religion, but within some kind of boundary. Jedi teachings and maxims could provide a framework for the freedom of religion without the possibility for persecution. It's not required, but if one wishes to practice a religion (or just wants to join a fun club) they must do so with the core understanding that all people are entitled to their own beliefs. No more violent jihad, no more crusades, and no more "cultural revolutions."

Side note: Maybe we should wait and see if Mars will actually be colonized before we take this too seriously

well, when you make something "the official and only allowed religion, for and on the entire planet," it kind of sounds like something that could "evolve into persecution," doesnt it?

Cable, I do not doubt you, but your talking about a lot of people being as trustworthy as you are with a lot of power.

CableSteele wrote: Did you have to abandon your pagan beliefs to be a member of this "Jedi" temple? What about to become an apprentice? Do you not consider yourself Jedi?

Is there anything in our doctrine that could evolve into persecution of non-Jedi? I don't see anything. It seems to me that, as religious beliefs go, the Jedi Way is pretty sterile. There is no penalty for rejecting Jedi beliefs.
China's cultural revolution showed us what happens when atheist crusaders try to forcibly stomp out religion. Rather than have a similar thing happen with the future colonization of Mars, we should allow free expression of religion, but within some kind of boundary. Jedi teachings and maxims could provide a framework for the freedom of religion without the possibility for persecution. It's not required, but if one wishes to practice a religion (or just wants to join a fun club) they must do so with the core understanding that all people are entitled to their own beliefs. No more violent jihad, no more crusades, and no more "cultural revolutions."

Side note: Maybe we should wait and see if Mars will actually be colonized before we take this too seriously

No I don't consider myself Jedi (whatever that term even means), at least not as this temple strictly defines it in its doctrine. That's the very definition of Syncraticism. You may read my initiate journal for details on that. If we are to make Jediism a "State" religion but there is no penalty for rejecting Jedi beliefs then why have it as a State religion in the first place? What if my beliefs come into opposition to your beliefs? What if I come to be an atheist and work peacefully towards the eradication of all religion through education or whatever other means I deem fit? What then? That would seem to go against the State sponsored religion and it seems that the very nature of that would lead to persecution. Culture is a funny thing. Just because you think your cultural and spiritual beliefs are what everyone should follow as a basis for their spirituality does not mean everyone will just lay down and agree with you.