The value of "time in the community"

Khaos wrote: I have never put your feelings before what you needed to hear, because thats not being a true teacher, or friend.

This. YES, YES, SO MUCH THIS!!
There should never be a conflict between loyalty and integrity. For one who lacks integrity can never hope to provide loyalty - or indeed deserve any.

Cicero wrote: That thing is then not a friendship, where if one wants not hear truth, the other be prepared to lie.

Khaos wrote: I take no offense to being called harsh, but I am hardly cold, in fact, it's the heat that people complain about most.

Fact is,there are more threads about how people feel left out or are hurt coming all the time, so while the Jedi may be living "smarter", they have no real measure of what is hard, again, if the internet threads are too much for them, I cannot imagine any amount of smart living is helping them when things do get tough offline.

Exactly.

I feel like people here are taking criticism and reflection negatively (As usual) rather than realizing that we (older members) were just reflecting on the changes. There is a miscommunication going on due to an inability to properly portray experience in text. These words "Hard" "Cold" "Soft" "Sensitive" are not doing it justice. And as proteus mentioned....is getting off topic. (Which is something we never cared about back then) So I will conclude my participation in this thread simply by saying.

Those years gave me a life, a meaning and a purpose. I bet many of the newer generation can say the same thing. Too me, both have great value's and there is nothing wrong with mentioning and/or reflecting upon them. The negativity assumed from said mentioning is your problem. Not mine. <--(So Cold!!) I still love you all as fellow Jedi anyways and will continue my participation here at TOTJO <--(Soft and Squishy!)

*bows*

Gisteron wrote:

Khaos wrote: I have never put your feelings before what you needed to hear, because thats not being a true teacher, or friend.

This. YES, YES, SO MUCH THIS!!
There should never be a conflict between loyalty and integrity. For one who lacks integrity can never hope to provide loyalty - or indeed deserve any.

Cicero wrote: That thing is then not a friendship, where if one wants not hear truth, the other be prepared to lie.

See, the thing here is how it is delivered, generally...

I can tell you (anyone) you are being a d*ck, or, I can lead you there for you to understand it for yourself... Well, attempt to lead you...

But, I believe Snowy and Trisskar covered that....

We are less "baseball bat" and more "patience and repition"....

Like dealing with children....

And not cause they are short, and whiney, lol, although I suppose that could be said, and has been said to some of the "special snowflakes" (not a slam at snowy, lol), lol...

Thinking of two individuals, commenting in this thread, One, when challenged in a harsh manner, will get upset, and fly off in a little huff, a small 'rage quit', and the other, when challenged, maintains there calm demeanor, and usually shuts up on the topic...

Right there, is the "goo and the prickles', for the 'rage quit' one is full of emotion, and learns one way, and the 'shuts up' is the logic one, and learns another...

I too am an emotional one, I have rage quit more than I care to admit on many things, and while I feel logical, I know I am more emotional...

This (for me) is the two ends of this... And, like all 'scales' with which we measure, there is seldom a 100/0, 0/100, or 50/50 split on where any one of us is along this measuring stick...

I feel I am personally about 45p%(prickle) and 55g%(goo) on the ole Watts scale...

Balance is what we are all striving for, at least here at TOTJO, and I think this is one area where I do well....

I can talk to the snowflakes and the hardasses, and not be offended, and seldom offend...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As I reread this, to hit submit, I started thinking about the first thing Gisteron quoted of Khaos'...

You can tell me 100 times that my ego is in the way, and I may get defensive, and not really be listening... Im pretty hardheaded/stubborn...

Some folks, you can tell 2-3 times, and they see it, and make adjustments...

But, if you show me, lead me to the point where I figure it out for myself, then I can see it, and make corrections...

If I am so easily swayed by the words of someone (with time in the community, lol to tie in the topic) that I only require a few times of being told, that I change who I am and how I act, whats that say about me? How steadfast in my beliefs am I really?

When wrote like that, where is the "hive mind" (my words) that I see Jedi/TOTJO accused of? I would say to those who can have their mind so easily swayed...

TOTJO is for those like me, who must be lead, and allowed to drink, not told to drink (cause then we wont), and expected to 'toe the line'....

My decision to come here, and help here, is because I can learn better here, than at someplace like FA, where being challenged doesnt allow 'absorption' time... I can hang there, but, I have enough conflict that some jokers on the internet are NOT going to add more stress to my life, lol...

I will seldom hear what you say, and believe it when you tell me only once/twice/three...

These little word fight, these conversation on the internet that some "seem to get upset about" (I forget exact words) are not because folks cannot handle them, the exact opposite, the way to handle it, is to not worry about it, and not come back, thus the 'deadness' of our sister sites... Our live are fine, we dont need 'harassed' in such a manner to grow, we can do it just fine, have been too, thank you very much...

People like it here, because our 'bats' are foam, with a plastic center.... hahaha....

And, we chase away our share too, having someone leave recently because they choose to not deal with us, misreading our intentions in a thread... I wonder if he saw us, like we see the other sites, lol... And others, who want more challenge than TOTJO provides...

I'm curious, are there any actual examples of somone justifying their behavior with tenure? How was it handled then? I've been reading through the odd post here and there, but I am yet to see anyone using their "time served" in such a way.

Mindas Arran wrote: I'm curious, are there any actual examples of somone justifying their behavior with tenure? How was it handled then? I've been reading through the odd post here and there, but I am yet to see anyone using their "time served" in such a way.

I can't find you an example because I can't remember when it last happened, but it has happened. Admittedly, people using examples of their own "time served" to valid their behaviour is pretty rare.
However, as mentioned in the OP, people using other member's "time served" to support that member's point when it is criticised is quite common.

MartaLina wrote: I wonder about that a lot , how DO they manage in the real world , i mean , offended so easily, they must have very sheltered and safe lifes ...

That is exactly the opposite of how it usually works, in my experience. We really need to stop making assumptions based on our own ideas of what other people are instead of actually asking them and finding out.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

MartaLina wrote: I wonder about that a lot , how DO they manage in the real world , i mean , offended so easily, they must have very sheltered and safe lifes ...

That is exactly the opposite of how it usually works, in my experience. We really need to stop making assumptions based on our own ideas of what other people are instead of actually asking them and finding out.

I agree , but i still wonder sometimes ...and sometimes a lot

Jestor wrote: We are less "baseball bat" and more "patience and repition"....

Like dealing with children....

Something tells me that's kind of the point. Nobody is arguing in favour of battery, but to treat adults like children is condescending and at times humiliating. Even children feel it when you treat them as such. It rarely helps with anything and serves only to reinforce and protect those - adults as well as Peter Pan - who actually do want to be treated like children which is... well, immature in a rather very literal sense of the word.
As I said in another recent thread, rules are in place to keep this place civil and family-friendly.
No, of course most people don't change just because some jackass on the internet declares that they have to. That's not something that happens here a lot, so if there is an objection to what does happen, it seems to have to be against the more reasoned and nuanced criticism we actually do find at TOTJO.
It is one thing to refuse a journey any challenge invites to. We couldn't demand everyone to go to every place they are invited but to those who cannot even handle receiving an invitation in the first place I personally have little more to say than "there is your mail box and here is some glue".

How much of a coincidence is it, by the way, that a thread about patience we have with harsher seniors derailed into a debate on what is acceptable conduct? Somehow I suspect that this same matter is what it was really about all along... was it not?

Mindas Arran wrote: I'm curious, are there any actual examples of somone justifying their behavior with tenure? How was it handled then? I've been reading through the odd post here and there, but I am yet to see anyone using their "time served" in such a way.

I think that last 'example' was [strike]Trisskar[/strike] ren talking about your time in the community... https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/open-discussions/115066-non-white-jedi-discussions?start=30#243968

But, it was after some said "who are you?" to you, in the non-white thread....

As I have talked to you and ren quite a bit, (always room for more, ), I saw ren explaining who you are, not 'in defence' of you...

Atticus509 wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: Our knights do stuff with their life, or at least try to keep it up. Little service stuff like picking up stuff on the side of the road? That sounds like something IJRS promotes. Not the other orders. Even JK promoted interacting with other people for service projects, not environmental.

Yeah, I don't know which IJRS you're talking about. You mean the one that taught me to pile a second career in EMS on top of my more-than-full-time job as a public defender? That one? You are and will always be my friend, Ally, so please do not disrespect what I do with the few minutes of free time I have.

They have this thing about doing so many hours of community service, but there isn't a list on what the community service has to look like. So picking up trash on the side of the street is perfectly acceptable. They're the only order that requires so many hours.

It's not disrespect. It's a statement, IJRS makes up for the community service format by having other courses that promote growth in other areas. Community Service seems more like an interim thing to do while you're getting to the point where you can impact the world with a greater ability.