The value of "time in the community"

Jestor wrote: A portion of the understanding does go to the listener, but, if you speak in a manner they are unfamilar with, then they wont get it...

And this is why we need to be extra gentle with new folks. They haven't been around long enough to know the culture yet (and we don't know them well enough to say what approach they need). I'm not saying to excuse them forever, but at least until they find their place here. Not everyone has the self-awareness to be able to slow down and think before they speak yet when they get here (hell, I'm a great example of that... I had no idea what I was walking into and poked every bear I could find, thinking you all quite cute and squishy). I hate to think of who I'd have continued to be if I hadn't found this place when I did.

My point is that a period of transition, of learning the environment, is important, and to expect them to just shut up and listen straightaway is unfair yet. Not everyone is equipped.

Goken wrote:

ren wrote: Nothing is rude to a Jedi.

I respectfully disagree. Perhaps I don't fit your definition of Jedi but there have been times that I have felt that people have been rude to myself and/or others and I believe myself to be a Jedi.

Being offended is not a choice but I still think feeling offended is a choice , i saw threads where people were rude , still if you try to see it from their angle and step over poor language choices , you are making the choice that you are trying to understand them, being rude to newcomers is dumb in my opinion however , that makes us look stupid and unwelcoming and then having mentioned that the person who does that is an oldtimer ? Yeah that sounds like the drunk uncle that we all indulge , well not really . Its juggling most of the time , where do you restrict people from speaking their mind , and where do you let them..
So yes and no, time in the community does stand for something , but if you talk BS i really dont care how long you call yourself a Jedi , i was taught that you recognize the tree by the fruit !

tzb wrote: Edit - from the other side, I believe it takes about 6 months to really "know" this community. But beyond that, it's about being receptive to the frequent and constant change, open to new members and new ideas, and patient with those who arrive without trust in what we do.

my registration is DEC 2014 and Im STILL working on this lol

im pretty sure that ive offended or at least irritated every single person here at some time or another lol

im not apologizing, im saying it because its relevant

i dont think new members should be babied exactly, but it is appropriate for those who have been here for a while to understand that it takes time to integrate - "calibrate" is what i used to say to Jestor when he would PM me lol

also about the idea of "if i change because people on the internet tell me that i should change, it means that i am not committed to what i believe"

well thats got truth to it, but its also true that we learn through feedback and response

if everywhere that i go there are people are complaining about the smell, it might be that there are some changes being indicated that are in my best interests

sometimes being critical in a direct way can speed up that process

it is useful to be able to both give and receive honest feedback

OB1Shinobi wrote:

tzb wrote: Edit - from the other side, I believe it takes about 6 months to really "know" this community. But beyond that, it's about being receptive to the frequent and constant change, open to new members and new ideas, and patient with those who arrive without trust in what we do.

my registration is DEC 2014 and Im STILL working on this lol

i dont think new members should be babied but its inevitable that it takes time to integrate - "calibrate" is what i used to say to Jestor when he would PM me lol

also about the idea of "if i change because people on the internet tell me that i should change, it means that i am not committed to what i believe"

well thats got truth to it, but its also true that we learn through feedback and response

so like if everywhere that i go, people are complaining about the smell, it might be that there are some changes being indicated that are in my best interests

so it is necessary to be able to give honest feedback and to be able to receive it

I use that all the time! I have an employee who has trouble dealing with abrupt, direct people. I tell him to calibrate his response spectrum to the emotional baseline of the third party and it will all get easier to handle!

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Jestor wrote: A portion of the understanding does go to the listener, but, if you speak in a manner they are unfamilar with, then they wont get it...

And this is why we need to be extra gentle with new folks. They haven't been around long enough to know the culture yet. I'm not saying to excuse them forever, but at least until they find their place here. Not everyone has the self-awareness to be able to slow down and think before they speak yet when they get here (hell, I'm a great example of that... I had no idea what I was walking into and poked every bear I could find, thinking you all quite cute and squishy). I hate to think of who I'd have continued to be if I hadn't found this place when I did.

My point is that a period of transition, of learning the environment, is important, and to expect them to just shut up and listen straightaway is unfair yet. Not everyone is equipped.

Perhaps, but at the same time, again, this is a fairly low level form of interaction. It is relatively anonymous, depending on how much one intends to share, and I would say in these types of places, we share quite a bit, but, if you have made it to adulthood and have nor learned to listen, or think before you speak, or whatever way you cut it, do you really think an online forum will teach you that?

I mean, its far easier in this venue to cover your ears and "LALALALA" or spew non sense, and just log off when convenient.

I would consider online perhaps the least likely place to learn to listen. There is little in the way of really enforcing any level of responsibility, and accountability other than what the person already brings with them.

More and more you instead get condescending forms of "Tolerance", which isnt learning to listen, but more just learning to navigate more clever ways to not do so.

On another note, these threads move super fast dont they? I wok out, do some errands, come back and dont even know if I should try to respond to all the posts concerning my old ones or just stick to the most recent parts of the conversation.

Sometimes 4-5 pages go by. Sometimes more.

Khaos wrote: Perhaps, but at the same time, again, this is a fairly low level form of interaction. It is relatively anonymous, depending on how much one intends to share, and I would say in these types of places, we share quite a bit, but, if you have made it to adulthood and have nor learned to listen, or think before you speak, or whatever way you cut it, do you really think an online forum will teach you that?

1. not everyone here has been an adult as long as we have, and not everyone here is an adult at all.
2. I believe that's part of the exact nature of some of the material here: impulse control, emotion yet peace, passion yet serenity, etc. I promise you, I am walking proof that you can learn these things here when you didn't have those things in your personality beforehand.

I would consider online perhaps the least likely place to learn to listen. There is little in the way of really enforcing any level of responsibility, and accountability other than what the person already brings with them.

That's also true, and I agree this is a very unlikely place to learn these things, but life works in crazy ways. We tend to learn when and where we're ready. I've learned more about how to listen from you guys than anyone else, ever. I sat through years of therapy that didn't teach me what you guys taught me in less than 6 months.

More and more you instead get condescending forms of "Tolerance", which isnt learning to listen, but more just learning to navigate more clever ways to not do so.

That's certainly a possibility as well. Unfortunately every yin comes with a yang. Or vice versa

Khaos wrote: On another note, these threads move super fast dont they? I wok out, do some errands, come back and dont even know if I should try to respond to all the posts concerning my old ones or just stick to the most recent parts of the conversation.

Sometimes 4-5 pages go by. Sometimes more.

At least you are getting outside , we just sit here hitting the F5 button :laugh:

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Khaos wrote: Perhaps, but at the same time, again, this is a fairly low level form of interaction. It is relatively anonymous, depending on how much one intends to share, and I would say in these types of places, we share quite a bit, but, if you have made it to adulthood and have nor learned to listen, or think before you speak, or whatever way you cut it, do you really think an online forum will teach you that?

1. not everyone here has been an adult as long as we have, and not everyone here is an adult at all.
2. I believe that's part of the exact nature of some of the material here: impulse control, emotion yet peace, passion yet serenity, etc. I promise you, I am walking proof that you can learn these things here when you didn't have those things in your personality beforehand.

Shoot, IM 45, and am still learning to 'adult', this crap is for the birds man... lol...

Seriously, while I felt myself all wise and crap at 30, and could have handled this internet jedi stuff back then, my physical 'adult-ness' left a bit to be desired...

While I knew what needed to be done, and could tell you, I had trouble with the "implementation"!!!, lol...

But, only in my finances... Ok, maybe in some other areas too... :whistle: :pinch:

Standing desk at work...you guys are really putting me through my miles today!