The value of "time in the community"

Trisskar wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: And that worked for you, but lets not deny those that learn from the soft view as well

And lets not deny those that learn from tough love

Fair enough!

Saying that the world is hard and gives no f%^&$ is a pretty typical paradigm and an understandable one. I've noticed the issues from this view arise when blanketing it over too much of one's life experience and using it to color things cold that, by doing so, ends up restricting you from actually utilizing what you could be. It's overly-stressful and inefficient, and in any case, seems incomplete of the big picture.

Some of the world can be cold.

Some of the world can also be forgiving, understanding, caring.

But I am learning that there is a balance to this, and may be good to know that balance as a Jedi and reflect that balance accordingly to what is most necessary.

I'm learning that these two experiences (cold and caring) approach me depending on a variety of factors such as
- My attitude toward others and myself
- My geological location and that location's sub-culture
- The particular situation at hand and the circumstances surrounding it
- My own awareness of what value each experience holds and why.

I think that one of the reasons we study some of the things we do here is that, the lessons are intended to actually sit Behind the stage of those above factors and help one to philosophically understand why those factors play the roles that they play. The better we can understand that, the better we learn to maneuver among where the "world is cold and gives no $&!#$" and where it actually does.

In short, I think my paradigm of the Jedi path revolves around living smarter, and not harder. And at least logically speaking, other than "old fashion influence", I sometimes feel perplexed toward people who would rather live harder than smarter, given what happens to the body and mind when choosing to live a life of grinding against things going on around you with a mostly cold/harsh attitude.

Rather has little to do with facing hard challenges in life.

In the smartest will face them.

I take no offense to being called harsh, but I am hardly cold, in fact, it's the heat that people complain about most.

Fact is,there are more threads about how people feel left out or are hurt coming all the time, so while the Jedi may be living "smarter", they have no real measure of what is hard, again, if the internet threads are too much for them, I cannot imagine any amount of smart living is helping them when things do get tough offline.

So I question how well the transference of maneuverability in the harsh world is being conducted then.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it.

Types all types, and the more the merrier!!! Well, within limits... and what good are limits if they are not pressed now and then! Different parts of the forum will have a different style of content. Apprentice areas are more focused on progress, and Knight areas are focused on serving, loosely speaking (or perhaps should be!?).

Forgive bluntness, I'm just going to say what has been confirmed in numerous private interactions:

Bringing up your time in the community as if it makes you an authority on anything makes one look like an asshat. It happens a lot. Certain members are known for it, and conversations relating to those members rarely get past their inability to divorce their current state of mind from their "long and storied history" within the Jedi community.

The longer you've been a Jedi, one would hope, the smaller your ego should be, the better you should be at communicating without turning people off in sentence one, the more obvious it should be that a brand new idea may be as valuable as a very persistent one, to someone who is receptive to change.

Change being the action of that thing we study, beginning with F.

Often the people stating "don't you know I've been doing this for 10 years?", or who smugly intone "Well, you wouldn't remember, but 5 years ago..." only highlight their own glacial progress along their paths by doing so. If in 5, 10, 15 years you haven't noticed that things change, communities evolve, and - crucially - that doing something for a very long time doesn't necessarily make you any good at it, then perhaps this isn't the path for you.

This rant was brought to you by tzb - being bugged by the ubiquity of these sorts of totally unfitting statements since 2013 (you wouldn't remember it).

Edit - from the other side, I believe it takes about 6 months to really "know" this community. But beyond that, it's about being receptive to the frequent and constant change, open to new members and new ideas, and patient with those who arrive without trust in what we do.

Khaos wrote: Rather has little to do with facing hard challenges in life.

In the smartest will face them.

I take no offense to being called harsh, but I am hardly cold, in fact, it's the heat that people complain about most.

Fact is,there are more threads about how people feel left out or are hurt coming all the time, so while the Jedi may be living "smarter", they have no real measure of what is hard, again, if the internet threads are too much for them, I cannot imagine any amount of smart living is helping them when things do get tough offline.

So I question how well the transference of maneuverability in the harsh world is being conducted then.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it.

I wonder about that a lot , how DO they manage in the real world , i mean , offended so easily, they must have very sheltered and safe lifes ...

I just read back through this thread since my last post... It's interesting how, when the discussion is about those who wave around their time in the community, that some of this thread became a criticism of this community's methods instead...

Yeah, no. I'm sorry, people I have known for years, but if time in the community somehow entitles you to some degree of rudeness because "wul, in my day, we didn't mollycoddle newbs the way YOU DO" then perhaps you will forgive me my six-plus years worth of rudeness when I say you're full of crap.

I didn't come here to be coddled. I also didn't come here to lord my "time in" over anyone. I simply do not bring it up. I'm apprenticed to a Jedi who has been on the Path half as long as I have, and there is not a single day that goes by that he doesn't teach me something new. And a big one of those teachings has been to meet people, especially new people, where they are, not where you think your experience demands they should be.

Want me to be impressed by your time on the Path? Show me how it's made you a better person. Show me some evidence that you get up every day and meditate, show me how you practice understanding and compassion. For some of us, it's not coddling, it's basic human kindness.

And seriously, stop hearkening back to training sites that folded long ago, or slamming sites that are still out there trying to do something to move the community forward. The "my dick is bigger than yours" thread is over there.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Our knights do stuff with their life, or at least try to keep it up. Little service stuff like picking up stuff on the side of the road? That sounds like something IJRS promotes. Not the other orders. Even JK promoted interacting with other people for service projects, not environmental.

Yeah, I don't know which IJRS you're talking about. You mean the one that taught me to pile a second career in EMS on top of my more-than-full-time job as a public defender? That one? You are and will always be my friend, Ally, so please do not disrespect what I do with the few minutes of free time I have.

It kind of strikes me as odd that everyone seems to see everyone here as jedi. Signing up as a Guest does nothing to indicate if someone considers themselves to be a jedi or not. Khaos certainly does not sound like he considers himself to be one.
This is not a bad thing. No one needs to be a jedi to have a valid opinion and/or interest in the temple. Yet it means (without regards for the content of etiquette/general jedi conduct) that holding them to those standards may not be applicable. It’s not wrong to expect a knight to behave in a certain way, or an apprentice, maybe we could even assume a novice to behave accordingly. But a guest, specifically one past the mandatory 7 day wait, CHOSE not to be a member or more. That too, tells something.
Additionally, this is open discussions. Not a members-only place, not a jedi only place. Holding everyone and everything here to jedi standards (again, regardless of what that might mean) to me seems ill advised. I believe there are Members-and-up only sections of the forum? (admirably I did not pay enough attention to be sure) If so those would be the places I would expect people to behave in a way TOTJO seems to deem acceptable for jedi.

That much on formalities of the matter.

Personally I believe a message to depend as much on the receiver as it depends on those sending it. Emotion, yet peace. Every emotion has a value, trying to deal with them by changing the surroundings to me seems like a setup to failure as our surroundings rarely adhere to our wishes. More importantly they don’t travel with us. To me, dealing with those emotions myself is what I would consider a jedi thing to do, how else am I to archive peace within?
And I mostly deal with them by thinking of hurtful things as touching on a spot I need to pay more attention to. Unless a message is limited to an impersonal, contextless insult there is always something in it I apparently did not consider enough before. And even someone new, denying my personal favorite approach of reading their journal to understand them, may be someone with a story somewhere else. Less cryptic: If someone tells me ‘This person has been around a long time’ it just means the TOTJO search bar might not be enough. A regular web search engine might not be either but it sure as hell provides a lot more information.

Khaos wrote: Rather has little to do with facing hard challenges in life.

In the smartest will face them.

I take no offense to being called harsh, but I am hardly cold, in fact, it's the heat that people complain about most.

Fact is,there are more threads about how people feel left out or are hurt coming all the time, so while the Jedi may be living "smarter", they have no real measure of what is hard, again, if the internet threads are too much for them, I cannot imagine any amount of smart living is helping them when things do get tough offline.

So I question how well the transference of maneuverability in the harsh world is being conducted then.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it.

I was mostly just speaking for myself. Every Jedi is at least a somewhat different in how they face hard issues in life.

I'm not so sure one's online reactions is always similar or representative to how they face any particular hard issue in real life. Like I mentioned, there are factors to consider.

(This is becoming off topic here so I'll just leave my stance at that for now and let the intended topic resume)