Why do people here feel unimportant?

Goken wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: Which is why I've said over and over to do it in confidence.

My mistake. I missed that part. Sorry.

I also have occasionally seen that done so I wanted to make sure that no one was going to make a "Here's the people I have problems with" post. That wouldn't help.

I agree. That's definitely the wrong strategy.

And I just realized that I said to "out the jerk" which could be taken to mean publicly. That was ungracefully worded, and I apologize.

steamboat28 wrote:

Br. John wrote: That's why I said PM or email. Nobody is saying to call someone out in the forum.

How does that solve the problem, though? Calling out individuals is a nice band-aid solution, but if the attitudes are more widespread than the individuals named, that doesn't really help solve the problem, does it? Especially if the situation is handled in private.

Okay, lets try it this way: what do you propose as a better solution? Your answer must include specific actions that can be performed, not nebulous concepts.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: If you're unwilling to tell someone, even in confidence, who the perpetrators are then you're just holding the Order hostage with this. Anyone could say anyone is doing anything to them if they're not willing to prove it...It hurts the community to read endless drama with no real resolution.

You have spectacularly missed the point.

This isn't about individuals being jerks. This is about a profoundly systemic issue multiple people have encountered at the hands of multiple perpetrators. This is about the atmosphere of TOTJO and why it's occasionally so incredibly toxic. If this were just the same one or two people every time (and sometimes it is) it would be different. But that's not what it is. It has, at times, been expressed as nearly a cultural attitude at TOTJO.

You can't just order people to "fix the atmosphere", change happens from specifics and it has to be worked on consistently. Again, name specific people so they can be corrected, then the atmosphere will move in the direction you want it to.

(in reference to several posts stemmed from Steam's)

There is also the possibility that these folks don't know what they are doing. I myself have done things that turned out to be insensitive to someone and didn't know it until they spoke to me about what I did and how it made them feel. With this thread it gives us all a chance reflect and to be more aware of our actions towards each other.

Bugger it, I'd be tempted to say names in my Journal, since its not for discussion, if all other options had failed. I'd just be tactful about it and make it seem like I was using it as a learning experience.... if it were so systematic as is being described then there'd be little else to do

:ohmy:

steamboat28 wrote:

Br. John wrote: That's why I said PM or email. Nobody is saying to call someone out in the forum.

How does that solve the problem, though? Calling out individuals is a nice band-aid solution, but if the attitudes are more widespread than the individuals named, that doesn't really help solve the problem, does it? Especially if the situation is handled in private.

And I must note, that when handled in private between individuals, it can easily be dismissed... I had this happen recently when I tried speaking to someone I was dismissed out of hand.

Would anyone who has been told that their opinion doesn't matter please PM me with details and I will look into it immediately. Details, like what was said, by whom, when would be nice, screen shots are awesome... but not necessary.

Thank you.

Wescli Wardest wrote: Would anyone who has been told that their opinion doesn't matter please PM me with details and I will look into it immediately. Details, like what was said, by whom, when would be nice, screen shots are awesome... but not necessary.

Thank you.

That goes for me too even if it was me.

If wishes and buts were clusters of nuts, we'd all have a bowl of granola! ~ Strangers With Candy

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I am so happy your all still here.

I am particularly proud of Kit and Steam.

Please continue.

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Ok so I am going to preface my post with two disclaimors:

A) I am speaking in general terms and not to anyone in particular. So this is not about anyone in this thread or on this forum.
I am a veteran that is also a student of LeVay and Rand. So I am bit harsh or bullheaded if you wish to call it.

Ok now that this is out of the way:
Why do we feel unimportant because the fact of the matter is as individuals in the large picture we are not. No one here would cripple the temple of they left, at least not permanently. No one or even two or three people would destroy this place if they took their ball and left. Sure we might be diminished of wisdom but other voices will come and rise and strengthen this place. In the grand picture we are but pigments. Its not the individual dot that makes the picture but the sum of the whole.

Further for your voice or ideas to hold weight respect must be earned and your own merit in wisdom or clarity must be proven. I mean take me for example. Can I rightfully expect to tell a Knight or Councilor that they are wrong about their view on the code or what it is to be a Jedi? I am not even done with the IP why on earth would those words be take seriously. Over all for your view or words to have weight that is a respect one must earned. This does not mean we should not listen just that we cannot bend to every thought or idea or complaint that flows our way. Not everyone can be happy in such a large and varied group. So we must strive for fairness and balance.

Over all we matter to those close to us or whom we admire/are admired by. Other then this we cant expect every Tom, Jane, and Steve to change because we dislike their ideas or actions. If we wish for change then we must either find that it is a group problem or be willing to make the changes ourselves. Its not always on the Knights or Council to fix issues. We are all our own person and must grow or fix our own issues. Refusing to be open about who or what the problem is, refusing all attempts at suggestions on how to fix it, and demanding that others do all the work does not give our words weight.

Here's what I will do for you, since this is important. I will not call out anybody publicly. I will, however, begin to report every instance I see of this (whether it be private or public) to the moderators and John. Only from this moment forward. Perhaps this will correct itself. If it is so systemic as I and Steam believe, it won't be long before you see your inboxes light up soon.

I am not trying to be a part of mean spirited name calling... But, you asked for it and I am willing to provide for the good of the temple.

I feel as though I continue to cause drama. But if you know me personally, you know I abhor drama. It's just this temple is sometimes extremely skrhdificjelala. Lol. It's crazy.