Why do people here feel unimportant?

"I've had it good," she said, "with what the saucer told me. I wanted to...pay back. I was bad enough to be helped; I had to know I was good enough to help. No one wants me? Fine. But don't tell me no one, anywhere, wants my help. I can't stand that."

From: A Saucer Of Loneliness
by Theodore Sturgeon

http://fasterthanfashion.blogspot.com/2006/06/saucer-of-loneliness.html

People feel as though there is a lack of communication and an absence of listening in the Temple. They are right. While everyone’s views are important to us, some voices will be heard more than others.

With so many voices each trying to say their piece who should be listened to? Whose ideas should we take on board? And when we do listen to one person over another some people shall disagree, some people will think their way is the best way is the right way. Many won’t mind so much if their ideas aren’t taken on board, but will find the silence of their voice deafening.

There are so many voices, so many ideas, so many threads, that if something gets missed it isn’t because it doesn’t matter but because there is such an avalanche of material to sift through if it isn’t kept in the forefront it will quickly recede to the background.

When you have something to say have you said it clearly?, brought it to people’s attention?, have you exhausted the available options? If you have said it clearly (in a thread or PM), brought it to people’s attention (by bumping the conversation) and contacted someone else when you didn’t hear back (like another senior member) if THEN you are still being ignored you sure as anything can start shouting at us to get our act together!!

Did you have a really cool idea you think we should adopt? Well great! But it’s going to remain an idea until someone does the work to make it real. Why don’t you be the person to turn the idea into a reality? If you have something to offer you don’t always need to wait for permission, we probably aren’t going to be as enthused about it as you are so if you think you can take some initiative then take some.

Listening is a two way process, yes your voice should be listened to, but your voice also needs to be heard. One member recently wanted to get a Councillors attention so they asked someone else to contact them, well why don’t they contact the Councillor themselves? Members feel like their ideas get brushed under the carpet, but how many PMs expressing these feelings are sent to those higher up?

How many of you have sent us (Alexandre and Akkarin) a PM about some of these problems? How many of you have bumped conversations when you thought an idea got missed? When you felt slighted how many of you contacted a member of the Clergy or a Knight?

Don’t expect us to listen if you don’t make sure your voice is heard. And don’t always rely on someone else to make your voice heard for you. We aren’t scary, we aren’t going to tell you to get lost, none of us think of ourselves as inherently superior human beings, if you have something to say you can say it.

But as was said listening is a two way process. Senior members can do a better job of communicating too. We have a Council Secretary now who can hopefully keep us all engaged we can do a better job of keeping people informed of what happens behind the scenes. We can do a better job of talking with people about their concerns, but this of course requires a line of communication, perhaps a PM, if it is something you wish us to know then you need to PM us, while if it something about us that we think you should know then we should PM you too. But we’re management, this means that a lot of the time we’re pretty busy so if you think we should talk to you and we don’t, then take the initiative in opening that line of communication.

People seem to think that we are against change, but this is so far from the truth you wouldn’t believe. It’s just that most of us have literally been members for several years, there is change, many of you just aren’t around long enough to notice it. The reason change can take a long time to happen is because unless things are ever so utterly awful they need to be changed in an instant there is no immediate need. If we don’t change stuff is it really so bad? Are our lives so disrupted that we need to get up and shout the house down? That’s how things often look to us.

Things are not be ideal. As with the lessons on patience in the IP, when stuff isn’t ideal this is when going about your activities in the spirit of a Jedi is most needed. We are here today, we will be here tomorrow, and next month and next year. Have patience, have faith, have engagement. Change happens but when it doesn't happen the way it should, or as quickly as it should, it isn't because we don’t care, it is because there’s so much to be done stuff gets missed or forgotten or is a complex matter requiring greater deliberation.

Changes here happen, but they just don’t happen overnight, and yes sometimes Council is guilty of debating stuff to death, this is one reason why we have a Secretary, they can make sure our discussions are done in a timely manner. Instant changes require a dictatorship, which I assure you none of you, or us, want.

And when membership rocks the boat in the way you have it does impact the way we operate. And when you’ve brought it to our attention, had a long debate about it on the forum, and got the engagement of a number of senior staff, you will also need to give us time to address your concerns.

We hope to see you in the live service tomorrow at 20:30 UTC.

May the Force be with you, Always

I appreciated this thread. I have always loved the idea of Jediism and in many ways I am still practicing.

I am currently reading the Tao Of Zen by Ray Grigg. Zen comes from the Tao and has little to do with Mahayana Buddhism but is more closely related to the original words of Siddhartha Gautama which were brought to China by Bodhidharma. It is about nature and meditation to find your true self. Sounds like the force to me.

I believe this site is inspirational and it can put you on the right path but forum life falls short for me. There are some that believe in it and work hard to make it special, others just send negative messages and sabotage everything.

Human nature is a bitch.

For me I have advanced further without all the distractions, the opinions, the chatter and the noise.

Yet I check in from time to time because as Mr. Spock would say, "fascinating"

Hang around for a while, it grows on you after a while.

For me I have advanced further without all the distractions, the opinions, the chatter and the noise.

Please help me. How have you done that?

Rickie wrote: Hang around for a while, it grows on you after a while.

For me I have advanced further without all the distractions, the opinions, the chatter and the noise.

Please help me. How have you done that?

I cannot speak for others but i am doing that by shutting myself of a little , protecting myself against politics, sanctemonius jibberish, people who stand on high horses that talk a lot but are not saying a lot. But most of all , getting my ass in the real world and practising what i am learning here , putting money where my mouth is ? Being a Jedi, of service to others , doing the right thing. Out there you know where the birds are whisteling and stuff , not that i am belittleing people who are of great service online !!! Dont get me wrong , much help is needen online , but that is not for me , alot ..anyway , just be a Jedi , and if they give you a hard time Rickie ..i got your back , we all have , because we are part of the living Force and even in attacking eachoter we are ..tis all good for something in the end ...it will be fine

Rickie wrote: Hang around for a while, it grows on you after a while.

For me I have advanced further without all the distractions, the opinions, the chatter and the noise.

Please help me. How have you done that?

Hi Rickie,

All I can do is share with you what I have done and if it helps you great.

I've detached myself from the world of consumerism. I've simplified my life and got rid of a lot of things that were useless or taking up space for nothing.

I developed a daily meditation practice and I cancelled cable TV and only have Netflix. Since I watch a lot less TV I have time to workout and do so 4 times a week. When I can I go bicycling outdoors or take long nature walks.

I read a lot more. I have more time for family and I try to give to my community generously. I give free guitar courses to my neighbor because he asked me if I would.

I travel once a year to see the world and I cook fresh meals. I love cooking it's very relaxing.

My wife and I have a rule, I can talk about work for 10 minutes when I come home but after that we close the book on the subject and we talk about other things so that our lives are not consumed by work. I've cut down on my work overtime and make it a point to not work more than 40 hours a week. If I have to, I take some time off shortly therafter to maintain a certain balance.

I live for life now and I do not live for stuff. It took a while but I finally realized that stuff doesn't make you happy. In my opinion always wanting to buy stuff stesses you out. The more you buy the more you want.

Well that's about it.

I found love and make lots of room for the children and my family. Now that the kids have left home, I make time for community. I suround myself with like minded people. They are hard to find because most people are still caught up in the game of materialism. They want to compare. What is your status in life, what car do you drive, how many trips have you taken, etc...etc...

The friends I surround myself with now a days talk about life, spirituality and how to reduce our carbon footprint for future generations. For our children. Deep and meaningful conversations.

Hope this helps. Take care of yourself.

Jayden the 2nd wrote: I appreciated this thread. I have always loved the idea of Jediism and in many ways I am still practicing.

I am currently reading the Tao Of Zen by Ray Grigg. Zen comes from the Tao and has little to do with Mahayana Buddhism but is more closely related to the original words of Siddhartha Gautama which were brought to China by Bodhidharma. It is about nature and meditation to find your true self. Sounds like the force to me.

I believe this site is inspirational and it can put you on the right path but forum life falls short for me. There are some that believe in it and work hard to make it special, others just send negative messages and sabotage everything.

Human nature is a bitch.

For me I have advanced further without all the distractions, the opinions, the chatter and the noise.

Yet I check in from time to time because as Mr. Spock would say, "fascinating"

Often on my path I have found Mr Spock references. I feel ya! Ur secret is safe with me lol jk!

In response to the original topic:

I do not overall feel unimportant, though I certainly see why one would feel that way. I have felt a bit that way, but I'm trying to put things in perspective from my own experience. I'm new here and know that it overall takes time to gain trust and familiarity with a group of people - on both ends. We are all Jedi but we are also all human, so I try to be cognizant that regardless of rank, no one is going to be perfect in upholding all of our doctrine or teachings in their posts. But at least we are all (hopefully) trying, and not just here out of habit or as a social group. If someone is here for those reasons and as a result belittles people - well then, that is their loss and I feel compassion for them. So although occasionally a post may make me feel like I am not valued or that some of us on here are being compared with "asses", etc. - it is upsetting - but I am trying to let go of the anger or sadness I feel and trust that in general, we are all in it for the right reasons. But we are human and no matter the rank, it is difficult being selfless.

For me, I try to avoid investing too much of my "importance" or esteem on what is said or happening on an internet forum. To me Jediism is a living religion and must be applied out in the world(s) we live in each day. I try to focus on that. This may mean I will never be "popular" in the internet temple and it may mean that my say receives less importance or weight relative to others' who have been here longer or have more of an online presence. But we each follow our own path, and mine may mean that folks in the online temple never really gain the familiarity or trust in me to treat me as "important".

I value what I have learned here thus far, and hope to learn and grow much more in the future. My hope is if and when I am ready to be an apprentice, I can pair with a teacher who will value my personal growth and application of the Jedi philosophy over my online reputation, or lack thereof. My hope is also that as I grow in the temple, I develop a few close friends/mentors who mutually share the desire to grow on a spiritual path and really apply the teachings and doctrine.

I guess what I am saying is that feelings of unimportance are real. But even if I am "unimportant" in the online temple, I know that this is not reflective of my actual importance. And in order to continue to grow and benefit from the teachings here, I am trying to have faith that I will be able to grow with the help of those who truly have our philosophies at heart.

For me I have advanced further without all the distractions, the opinions, the chatter and the noise.

At first I thought your were being arrogant and condescending and I was going to call you out on that...

All I can do is share with you what I have done and if it helps you great.

It was a great post. Simple (I like simple), honest and sincere. Good job.

Hope this helps.

Please post more often like this and you may.

Not to drag this topic up again but I have a related question and wasn't sure that it required it's own thread.

Recently I've seen "In my unimportant opinion" used in several thread posts. I am wondering is that meant to be sarcastic and kind of jabbing at points made in this thread or sort of humble?

Not meaning to make light of the subject but I sort of saw it as a "Inside Joke?" Except without the joke part......It is something members here can understand due to this thread, so when one mentions it, it is assciated back to here. Humble? I don't think is the right word. More just Association......Since apparently "My own opinion" has turned to a rather negative phrase in the community over all.....

Just.....my "Unimportant" thoughts. <--- I don't feel my thoughts will be listened to or respected in the way i view them because we don't all share the same belief or opinion as is discussed in this thread.

......or something...

See when I read it I feel as though those individuals saying it assume that their opinion doesn't matter. I take the phrase literally. When I read it I hear it in my head as someone saying something rather quietly like since no one will listen they aren't bothering to really speak up.

Obviously that's kind of what this thread is about, people feeling like their opinion isn't important. In my opinion, if you want other people to think that your opinion is important you first need to think that it's important yourself. Going around saying "I don't matter" is a sure way to actually feel that way and isn't likely to inspire others to feel that it's important.

The other way I hear it is like a sarcastic slam on the Temple. Telling everyone who reads it that the writer knows that the reader doesn't care, which is not something that people like to hear. "Well you don't care about me or my opinions."

I also don't want people to confuse disagreement with not valuing an opinion. One can respect that one has an opinion without agreeing with it. Obviously this comes back to the manner in which one is disagreed with, but it is important to remember. If I say "I don't agree with that opinion" or "I think that you're wrong" I'm not saying "I think that you are unimportant" I'm just saying that I have a different equally valued opinion.

I guess I just view the phrase "in my unimportant opinion" as either being self-deprecating or somewhat back handed. Either way it's kind of disheartening to see. I'd hope that we could all work together to feel important and make others feel important too and constantly saying "I'm unimportant" isn't going to help, in my opinion.

I have been told my opinion doesn't matter. Point blank to me. So, now I mark my posts with the saying so that people know that I'm just a lowly individual.

-__- It's not a joke to me. Not at all.

Connor L. wrote: I have been told my opinion doesn't matter. Point blank to me. So, now I mark my posts with the saying so that people know that I'm just a lowly individual.

-__- It's not a joke to me. Not at all.

Connor, I wish there was something I could give you to make this issue better again. I wish there was an instant cure that I could offer that would make it all go away. Unfortunately we're just human beings, struggling along together, trying to make sense of each other.

But your opinion does matter. It matters to me. So you're not allowed to say that anymore. Okay?

Connor L. wrote: I have been told my opinion doesn't matter. Point blank to me. So, now I mark my posts with the saying so that people know that I'm just a lowly individual.

-__- It's not a joke to me. Not at all.

All that tells you is your opinion might not matter to the person who said it. It seems to have mattered enough that they bothered to take the trouble to tell you.

Br. John wrote: All that tells you is your opinion might not matter to the person who said it. It seems to have mattered enough that they bothered to take the trouble to tell you.

Except he's not the only person that's been told that. And it's not just coming from one source. This kind of dismissal is one of the reasons I stay so riled up in this Temple.

steamboat28 wrote:

Br. John wrote: All that tells you is your opinion might not matter to the person who said it. It seems to have mattered enough that they bothered to take the trouble to tell you.

Except he's not the only person that's been told that. And it's not just coming from one source. This kind of dismissal is one of the reasons I stay so riled up in this Temple.

But there comes a point where you stop caring so much about the opinions of people around you and just keep doing you. So Joe Blow said you're unimportant or that your opinion doesn't matter. He's entitled to his opinion. You don't have to care about his either.

I don't actually understand why this thread is still going. We're all important and the leadership has said so now dozens of times. Continuing to insist that your feelings are hurt isn't doing anything anymore. They already apologized and offered to correct it to the best of their ability in the future. They even changed the FAQ to take out the dismissive language there. It's time to accept their efforts and start growing again.

To persist in this just, at this point, sounds like whining and is going to hurt your attempts to take on real causes in the future.

If there /is/ some other clear endgame that hasn't been reached, now would be a great time to say what it is.

Is there something that's keeping people from telling who all's saying these things.

steamboat28 wrote:

Br. John wrote: All that tells you is your opinion might not matter to the person who said it. It seems to have mattered enough that they bothered to take the trouble to tell you.

Except he's not the only person that's been told that. And it's not just coming from one source. This kind of dismissal is one of the reasons I stay so riled up in this Temple.

Why do you believe others? No one can make you feel inferior with out your consent. We all know this, knowledge, yet we still haven't come to the wisdom of utilization.This Temple was built to grow not tare down. Let us grow and learn. Im sure if we , like I have never ever,jk, spoke with our council or other people we trust every time there is an incident there will ALWAYS be encouragement. I have ALWAYS received encouragement from my own teaching Master and from my Pastor, and I will attempt to give what I have received here. Isnt that one of many Jedi ways here?

Snowy Aftermath wrote: But there comes a point where you stop caring so much about the opinions of people around you and just keep doing you. So Joe Blow said you're unimportant or that your opinion doesn't matter. He's entitled to his opinion. You don't have to care about his either.

Except that Joe Blow holds a position in an office, and far outranks you, and is very well-liked in the community, and has the ability to shape the opinions of a lot of other people who've never taken the time to interact with you.

That's a problem, Snowy. It's a problem that people have been told by Knights and Clergy and Officers and Councilors that their opinions flat do not matter. It's a problem that people have been repeatedly told by people that they don't have a right to speak about this or about that, or that they're not in the special "in-crowd" of folks who get to be heard by virtue of whatever got them in the clique to start with.

That's not just "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da." That's a very real problem in the way this organization works, and it needs to be addressed.
[hr]

Br. John wrote: Is there something that's keeping people from telling who all's saying these things.

For me, it's a combination of common decency and the inability to remember how many people have said those things to me over the course of my nearly eight-year membership at this Temple.